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Here on Last Call, we broached some of the topics we didn't have time for, Wendy, in the first segment, including what I thought was a very interesting story in the St. Louis Business Journal compiling the number of business departures from downtown St. Louis.

in the legal field, Posanelli Law Firm, Brown and Crin, uh the Simon Group in Media, Flechman Hillard, KOV, KSDK, Focus St. Louis, the St. Louis Business Journal, Webster University, uh even the St. Louis Public Library moved out of one building, but thankfully it's still in downtown St. Louis.

And uh I guess when you have 30% vacancy in the central business district and the square footage is going for $19 a square foot in Clayton it's now $60 per square foot.

You've got real problems in River City.

Is you worked in downtown for 20 years.

Is there any way for us to rebound?

>> I think it's going to rebound.

I don't know if it will be in our lifetime, probably in your lifetime, but um everything is cyclical.

you know, you get to this 30,000 foot view and you do see the the the cycles and I think that, you know, it was like it was a perfect storm.

The world started to change.

The high techch world has changed everything.

You know, we thought the in terms of indust industry or the industrial uh side of things, we thought that was a change.

This is significant.

Then we had COVID.

Then you've got so many issues within the city and the county in St. Louis.

I do think it's going I do think it will come back.

I just don't know when.

>> From if you took from the riverfront to Bush Stadium and maybe three blocks uh west ran that corridor to Washington Avenue and you said like you know how if I build it they will come.

I I it's a gauntlet.

I'd have so many police and security guard officers and all that.

Then I said like all right the rent's a little cheaper.

Then we open up a couple of places.

Alvin's and Sarah's is down the block and hey they're having a great time at Alvin's and right down the block is Sarah's and they kicking it and it's safe and there's police everywhere and then right and well that's was we didn't get to that because we that's what I was going to say but hey and if I created a school that school would be safe and that people would want to go to that school that's all you got to do >> you know we have some big buildings down there though that I don't think will ever come back uh the railway exchange building that uh phone building they're just impractical in the 21st century and I don't know what you do with them but as long as you have these old dinosaurs >> I think I think you can make any building work anywhere but you just got to put it out there and say like look this is not a you're going to make a killing kind of you know RPI with it we're putting out there all right what we're putting out there is I got a low cost for you to create something here.

Show us the plan.

Show us why it will work and we'll make it safe.

>> Give it a shot.

>> What I thought was fascinating is in this story they said the regionwide office vacancy rate is like 19%.

Downtown it's 24%.

This is not an astronomical number.

This is after all of the businesses moving out that they're talking about.

And all I have heard for the last 5 years from anyone, anyone at this table is that, oh, let the last person in downtown turn off the lights.

There's tumble weed down there, or it's it's so dangerous.

And meanwhile, I'm finding out, yeah, it's just a few points higher than the regional average.

It's only now just gotten to this level of 24%.

How about when we were all freaking out three years ago?

Where was it at then?

>> Well, the central business district is 30%.

>> Yeah, but still, I mean, you look at downtown as a whole.

What's hotter right now is a different part of downtown and that central business district includes a couple of these big albatross buildings that they are coming up with long-term plans for.

Makes sense to me.

>> Why can't one bill center be commercial and residential where you've you know where you've got floors 1 through 20 or whatever that's a commercial space.

Then you've got residential high-rise, you know, maybe for a reduced price.

>> Well, here's here's here's the thing.

As in your recent podcast, you point out, the rest of the region is not sitting around.

They are developing.

I walk I walked through the loop today.

They've got a bunch of new stores.

They have more housing going up.

And Michael Stainberg was interviewed by the representative of South St. Louis, uh, Sarah Fensky, and he's putting a billion dollars in the Chesterfield.

And do you think he's going to miss?

>> No.

I think there's there's great buildings going up all over the place, including a number of them in the city of St. Louis.

Some of the problem downtown is that the people who own those buildings have sat on their laurels.

They have not innovated.

I know companies that have sought to stay downtown and they said, "Yeah, the big problem is that there's not enough class A space the way that you see in Clayton."

So, I think you're going to start seeing some market incentives for people to get off there.

>> Every downtown business district in the St. Louis region, if you go there, regardless of municipality, they've got storefronts and buildings that are empty in their downtown area.

It's just something to it.

Part of that is the cost that it the cost of doing business there.

I think St. Louis could address that.

>> You know, you have remote work working against us and you have people not going to brick and mortar stores anymore, ordering on Amazon.

I mean, the world is changing and I'm I'm afraid.

>> No, the world also good time.

If St. Louis could show the world a good time, it'll be back down.

>> You're right.

We've got the arch.

That is nothing.

I mean, that is no small potatoes.

I remember when Freddy Orlando was uh closing out and I said to Freddy, "What can you do?

What would you do downtown?"

And he said, "Dancing Girls."

I >> So Alvin, I mean that's Orlando is Orlando.

>> He owned Freddy O's which started out as a >> a bar and then became kind of a hamburger place.

>> Well, it's it's interesting.

We had a story last week where we were talking to some of the people who are making it work right now on WAVA and they said the key to what will bring people downtown right now is experiences.

So, Bill, I think you're on to something dancing.

>> Well, it was all Freddy O. I was >> I was just going to say vice >> Alvin Reed uh Michelle Muns of the Post Dispatch took a look at a braineing amieba that apparently was in the Lake of the Ozarks.

And one fell right now I think might be battling for his life uh after he was swimming in the water there.

Are you concerned at all about this?

Yeah, I would be only in because they that's one of those stories that you say look at the comments and how many people actually read the story and it really catches your attention.

I'm not joking here because the man, you know, really is sick and this happens.

But you know, Billy Long could go swimming in Iceland.

He's not going to get probably like a brain amieba.

So why is this happening where it's happening?

And you need to look into that.

You know, you can only play this off, you know, so much.

There's got to be a reason.

And that's the water is not pure.

And I know this day and age that science means nothing, but we might want to actually look into it down there at >> Well, actually, it's happening in a lot of places.

I mean, then not in great numbers anywhere, but there's an amoeba even in the ocean.

I was reading about that.

Oh, yeah.

You know, in in North Carolina and then Florida.

I mean, so the the it is happening, >> but not at great frequency.

And you wonder, are you supposed to like just not go swimming anymore?

I mean, >> I I I don't know.

It's going to have to be addressed because you you certainly have you you have increased pollution as much as, you know, if you're on social media and you see some of the bodies of water that people are jumping into, you're like, "Oh my god, I'd never let my kids get in that water."

Um, but I think in terms of the the temperatures also are, you know, you've got global warming.

Um, that makes a nice soup.

Uh, I think in lakes like the Lake of the Ozarks, you have you have old old bu buildings.

You've got septic tanks that have eroded.

They are going into the watershed.

They're they're probably there's some runoff.

I don't know what you can do about something like that.

Well, you could test the water and then people not ignore when they say like, you know, you got like what they call a feal soup here, you know, and then people would just say, "No, that's that EPA."

>> You saw Jaws.

You saw Jaws.

It's the Fourth of July and you're going to yell shark.

If it's a Fourth of July or the Memorial Day or Labor Day and you yell feal soup, you're going to have a problem >> pretty much.

I agree.

I agree.

>> Yeah.

>> This weekend is the taste of St. Louis, but it's in Clayton.

Sarah, >> aren't you happy, Charlie?

Anywhere it goes, it'll be fine for me.

No, but uh there are alternatives as you point out in the city of St. Louis.

>> Yeah.

I you know, when they moved out of downtown St. Louis, a lot of people were like, "Oh, it must be the crime."

And I interviewed this uh festival organizer at great length.

He said, "We never had a safety incident."

He said, "The problem is there are so many food festivals.

Everybody sees this as a way to make money.

They're all trying to get into that space."

And I just thought it was it was fascinating proving his point.

There are five different festivals in like the core of the metro area this very weekend.

You know, uh Schlafley is doing its new pickle and pint festival.

There's this new foodies eat first that's happening downtown that is really outside the box.

There's a a festival down on Cherokee.

A ton of competition.

So, I think the big one's now in Clayton.

>> Refer everybody to your newsletter.

>> Yes.

If people read my newsletter, they would know this.

So, yeah.

>> Right.

St. Charles is having Festival of Little Hills, but they've had that like a hundred years.

blame.

They have no water.

They have food but no water.

>> Exactly.

>> All right.

Well, wherever you go, bonapetit and uh we hope to see you.

Don't forget Donnie Bash, April the 16th.

Put that on your calendar and uh contact 9PBS to make your reservations today.

Everybody, we'll see you next week.