>>> NOW FROM NEWARK AIRPORT'S RECENT AIR TRAFFIC CONTROL OUTAGES TO THE JANUARY PLANE CRASH IN D.C. THAT CLAIMED 67 LIVES, THERE'S BEEN GROWING CONCERN AROUND AIR TRAVEL SAFETY IN THE UNITED STATES.

NEW YORK TIMES INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER KATE KELLY HAS BEEN EXAMINING THE PROBLEMS PLAGUING AMERICAN AVIATION, AND SHE IS JOINING TO DISCUSS POSSIBLE SOLUTIONS.

>> KATE KELLY OF THE NEW YORK TIMES, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

OVER THE PAST FEW WEEKS, THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL HIGH PROFILE INCIDENTS.

THERE WAS A BIG PLANE CRASH.

THERE WERE AIR-TRAFFIC OUTAGES.

YOU ARE A REPORTER WHO COVERS THIS.

YOU HAVE BEEN LOOKING INTO THIS FOR WEEKS NOW.

WHEN IT CAME TO THAT TRAGEDY AT WASHINGTON NATIONAL AIRPORT PUT THAT IN PERSPECTIVE FOR US, THE HAPPENED, VERSUS THE ONES THAT ARE HAPPENING THIS YEAR.

>> YEAH, SO THAT JANUARY 29th TRAGEDY NEAR REAGAN WAS BY FAR THE MOST DEADLY AVIATION ACCIDENT IN THE UNITED STATES IN 24 YEARS.

THE COMPARISON WOULD BE A 2009 CRASH IN THE BUFFALO AREA.

UM--BUT, SO, SO THAT IS--I DON'T WANT TO SAY HEARTENING, IT WAS TERRIBLE.

BUT, IN THE SENSE OF THESE TYPES OF CATASTROPHES ARE INFREQUENT I GUESS THAT'S SOMEWHAT REASSURING, BUT YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE IT HAPPEN AT ALL.

I HAVE WRITTEN EXTENSIVELY ABOUT THE CRASH AT REAGAN, AND WE COULD TALK MORE ABOUT THAT, BUT I WOULD SAY THAT WAS JUST A WHOLE ARRAY OF DIFFERENT FACTORS.

AIR-TRAFFIC CONTROL BEING A PIECE, LOW STAFFING BEING AN ASPECT.

BUT, IN SOME WAYS IT'S UNIQUE COMPARED TO WHAT WE ARE SEEING AT NEWARK BECAUSE IT INVOLVED FREQUENT HELICOPTER TRIPS UP AND DOWN THE POTOMAC RIVER WHICH IS CLOSE TO THE COMMERCIAL AIRSPACE.

THE DESIGN OF THE AIRSPACE IN TERMS OF HOW CLOSE A HELICOPTER CAN LEGALLY COME TO A LANDING COMMERCIAL AIRCRAFT IN CERTAIN SCENARIOS.

IT WAS REALLY NOT SAFE.

THE TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD HAS CALLED FOR URGENT CHANGES TO THE STRUCTURE OF THOSE FLIGHT PATHS TO AVOID ANY POSSIBLE FUTURE ISSUES WHICH FEDERAL AVIATION ADMINISTRATION HAS QUICKLY ADOPTED.

UM--BUT, ALSO JUST GENERAL CONGESTION IN THAT AIRSPACE, WHAT WE CALL TASK SATURATION, MEANING AIRSPACE WORKERS LIKE AIR-TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS AND PILOTS HAVING TO NAVIGATE US GUYS ARE OVERLY DIZZY, THEY HAVE TOO MUCH --BUSY.

>> I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF CONCERN FOR PEOPLE ON THE FUNDAMENTALS UNDERLYING THE INFRASTRUCTURE.

AND I WONDER THE AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS, THE TECHNOLOGY, THE STAFFING--THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS OVERNIGHT.

>> YEAH, AND YOU REALLY NAILED THE CORE PROBLEM HERE.

THE PROBLEM OBVIOUSLY IS THAT WE HAVE SHORT STAFFING AND TECHNOLOGICAL ISSUES.

BUT THE FIX IS A VERY LONG-TERM FIX, AND IT'S A LONG-TERM PROBLEM.

SO IT'S A LONG STORY, BUT I GUESS WHAT I WOULD SAY IS WHAT WE ARE SEEING, AND A COLLEAGUE AND I JUST WROTE ABOUT THE RECENT HISTORY OF AIR-TRAFFIC CONTROL INVESTMENTS BY UNITED STATES GOVERNMENT, OR LACK THEREOF, I CAN TELL YOU IT'S A MULTI-ADMINISTRATION, BIPARTISAN --IT'S NOT JUST ONE ADMINISTRATION OR ONE PARTY THAT HAS DROPPED THE BALL HERE.

IT'S A COMBINATION OF CONGRESS NOT AUTHORIZING ENOUGH FUNDING, THE WHITE HOUSE AND PORTMAN OF TRANSPORTATION LEADERS PERHAPS NOT SEEN THE URGENCY AND MOVING POLITICALLY IN AN EFFECTIVE WAY, AND FRANKLY MAY BE A COLLECTIVE LACK OF URGENCY.

BEEN ALMOST A QUARTER CENTURY SINCE WE HAD A DEADLY CRASH LIKE THE ONE AT REAGAN AIRPORT IN JANUARY.

I THINK THAT WAS SOMETHING OF AN OUTLIER IN TERMS OF THE INVESTMENT PIECE.

I THINK THERE WERE MANY WHICH UNDERINVESTMENT IS JUST ONE.

I THINK UNTIL THE NATIONAL ATTENTION IS REALLY FOCUSED ON THE AVIATION SECTOR SOMETIMES THERE IS A LACK OF POLITICAL ABILITY TO UNLEASH ADDITIONAL FUNDING AND A SENSE OF URGENCY.

SO WHAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN NOW IS REALLY A MULTIMILLION DOLLAR, MAYBE TENS OF BILLIONS OF DOLLARS, INVESTMENT IN AIR- TRAFFIC CONTROL, WHICH THE NEW TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY SEAN DUFFY HAS SAID HE WANTS TO DO, AND HE'S LAID OUT A FRAMEWORK FOR THAT.

BUT ALSO SOME CREATIVE THINKING AND AGGRESSIVE MOVEMENTS TO TRY AND RETAIN AND RECRUIT NEW AIR- TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS SO THAT THOSE RANKS AREN'T SO DEPLETED.

DATA THAT THE TIMES REVIEWED JUST LAST WEEK SHOW THE VAST MAJORITY OF AMERICAN AIR- UNDERSTAFFED TODAY.

>> SO, HOW MANY?

WHAT PERCENTAGE?

>> I BELIEVE IT'S 99%.

I THINK THERE WERE ONLY TWO FACILITIES ACROSS THE NATIONAL AIRSPACE THAT WERE FULLY STAFFED.

>> SO WHY IS THAT?

>> ALSO LONG STORY, SOME PEOPLE WOULD GO BACK TO THE 1980s.

IN 1981 PRESIDENT RONALD REAGAN ESSENTIALLY SQUASHED THE UNION AND BARRED ITS MEMBERS FROM REEMPLOYMENT.

SO EFFECTIVELY THAT SYSTEM HAD TO START FROM SCRATCH RECRUITING NEW PEOPLE.

THAT END WAS LIFTED IN 1993, AND SOME OF THOSE EXPERIENCED CONTROLLERS CAME BACK TO THE WORKFORCE, BUT MORE OR LESS, THE UNITED STATES HAD TO SORT OF DEVELOP AND GROW A WHOLE NEW GENERATION OF CONTROLLERS.

SINCE THEN THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF DIFFERENT ISSUES.

SOME OF IT IS CYCLICAL.

RIGHT NOW THERE'S A MANDATORY RETIREMENT AGE OF 56 YEARS OLD.

SECRETARY DUFFY AS AN ASIDE WANTS TO EXTEND THAT TO 61, BUT THERE ARE INCENTIVES TO RETIRE AFTER SOME -- SOME OF THAT WAS THE PANDEMIC.

DURING THE PANDEMIC TRAINING OF NEW AIR-TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS STOPPED FOR A PERIOD OF TIME, BECAUSE OF THE HEALTH POLICIES AND PROCEDURES THAT WERE IN PLACE PREVENTED THAT IN PERSON TRAINING FROM OCCURRING.

UM--AND ALSO, WE HAVE SEEN A HUGE UPTICK IN AIR TRAVEL SINCE THE RECOVERY FROM THE PANDEMIC.

SUCH THAT THERE IS MORE DEMAND FOR THESE SERVICES THAN THERE WAS BEFORE.

SO, WE HAVE SEEN MAJOR SHORTAGES IN AIRSPACE LIKE JACKSONVILLE WHICH IS CRITICAL TO FLYING THROUGHOUT THE SOUTHEAST AND ALSO IS A KEY HUB FOR SPACE TRAVEL.

WHICH IS ALSO SOMETHING THAT AIR-TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS KEEP AN EYE ON.

WE HAVE SEEN SHORTAGES IN THE NEW YORK AREA THERE'S A HUB IN LONG ISLAND WHERE CONTROLLERS WATCH OVER KENNEDY AIRPORT, LaGUARDIA, AND UP UNTIL RECENTLY NEWARK, TOO.

SO, THAT WAS AN AREA OF STAFFING SHORTFALLS.

THAT'S ACTUALLY PART OF WHY THE NEWARK AREA AIR-TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS WERE RELOCATED FROM LONG ISLAND TO PHILADELPHIA.

>> AND THESE ARE HIGH STRESS JOBS.

THERE'S NOT REALLY A CHANCE FOR YOU TO LOOK AT YOUR PHONE.

THE TIME YOU ARE ON, IF YOU ARE IN FRONT OF THOSE COMPUTERS AND RADAR SCREENS YOU ARE TALKING TO PILOTS THE WHOLE TIME.

THIS IS A VERY ACTIVELY ENGAGED AND STRESSFUL ENVIRONMENT.

>> IT'S VERY STRESSFUL AND UNDER THE UNION CONTRACT THAT THESE AIR-TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS WORK UNDER THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO SIT ON POSITION FOR MORE THAN TWO HOURS BEFORE THEY GET A BREAK OF SOME KIND.

BUT OFTEN THEY ONLY HAVE 30 MINUTES TO USE THE BATHROOM, EAT FOOD, RECHARGE A PHONE, STRETCH THEIR LEGS--IT'S NOT AN INCREDIBLY LONG RECOVERY TIME.

AND SHIFTS I THINK TYPICALLY ARE STRUCTURED FOR EIGHT HOURS WITH BREAKS INCLUDED, SOMETIMES THEY GO LONGER.

AT A PLACE LIKE NEWARK WHERE THEY ARE HAVING STAFFING SHORTAGES PEOPLE ARE BEING ASKED TO WORK OVERTIME.

THEY ARE BRINGING IN PEOPLE FOR AS MANY SHIFTS I THINK AS THEY ARE WILLING AND ABLE TO DO BECAUSE THEY ARE SO SHORTSTAFFED.

I THINK IT'S VERY HARD WORK AND TAXING ON THE MIND.

COLLEAGUES OF MINE WROTE A SERIES IN 2023 ABOUT UM--THE TOLD THIS WAS TAKING ON PEOPLE'S MENTAL AND PHYSICAL HEALTH.

PEOPLE WERE DRINKING 10 CUPS OF COFFEE OR FALLING ASLEEP ON THE JOB OR WORSE, TURNING TO DRUGS HAVING ISSUES AT HOME, SO IT'S QUITE A STRESSFUL PROFESSION.

AND I THINK REST TIME IS VERY IMPORTANT.

>> YOU HAVE BEEN TALKING TO AIR- TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS FOR MONTHS NOW, AND THEY HAVE BEEN LISTING OUT SOME OF THESE COMPLAINTS TO YOU.

WHAT ARE KIND OF THE KEY CONCERNS ?

WHAT DO THEY WANT?

>> LET'S BE REALISTIC, EVERYBODY HAS THEIR OWN AGENDA.

I THINK AIR-TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS WOULD LOVE TO SEE EVEN BETTER PAY, A RELAXATION OF THEIR SCHEDULES.

THERE ARE THOSE CRITICS WHO WOULD SAY IT'S A VERY TIGHTKNIT ALMOST IMPENETRABLE CULTURE .

PERSONALITIES INVOLVED.

IT'S OCCASIONAL THAT YOU SEE PHYSICAL VIOLENCE IN THESE AIR- TRAFFIC CONTROL HUBS IN REAGAN AIRPORT.

A COUPLE MONTHS AGO THERE WAS A FISTFIGHT IN WHICH ONE WAS ARRESTED FOR ASSAULT AND BATTERY.

SO I THINK THEY CAN BE ROUGH- AND-TUMBLE PLACES TO WORK.

BUT THIS IS A HIGHLY SPECIALIZED SKILL SET THAT TAKES YEARS TO DEVELOP.

AND WE ALL COLLECTIVELY DEPEND UPON THESE PEOPLE TO KEEP US SAFE.

AND SO UM-- WHILE I DON'T THINK ANYBODY SHOULD EVER ABUSE THE SYSTEM IT DOES SEEM LIKE THE GOVERNMENT, THE FAA, SHOULD TAKE CARE OF THESE WORKERS, MAKE SURE THEY ARE HEALTHY, MAKE SURE THEY ARE MOTIVATED TO COME TO WORK AND DO THEIR BEST, AND THAT THEY ARE SET UP FOR SUCCESS AS OPPOSED TO FAILURE AND EXHAUSTION.

>> ONE OF THE THINGS WE HEARD IN THE WAKE OF THE D.C. AIRPORT TRAGEDY FAMILIES WERE SAYING IS THERE A CONFLICT OF INTEREST HERE?

THAT THE FAA NOT JUST SORT OF RUNS THE OPERATION, BUT THEY ARE THE REGULATORY BODY, THAT THERE IS NOT AN INDEPENDENT THIRD-PARTY, A WATCHDOG, THAT CAN TRY TO GET THIS?

DO WE HAVE ENOUGH SUPERVISION?

DOES THE STRUCTURE OF THAT SLEW THESE THINGS DOWN?

>> I THINK I AM HEARING THE SAME THING, WHICH IS TO SAY THERE ARE INCREASING CALLS FOR FIRST OF ALL AN INSPECTOR GENERAL LOOK AT WHAT IS GOING ON CRASH WHAT MORE BROADLY IS HAPPENING AT THE FAA RIGHT NOW.

I'VE HEARD CALLS FOR SEPARATING AT THE REGULATORY ARM OF THE FAA TO CREATE MORE INDEPENDENT OR THIRDLY CREATING AN INDEPENDENT PANEL THAT MIGHT BE ABLE TO TAKE A LOOK AT FAA WITH EXPERIENCED AVIATION OR SAFETY OFFICIALS WHO REALLY UNDERSTAND THE ISSUES.

SO, I THINK THERE'S A CLAMOR TO WHICH ARE INTERESTING PROPOSALS.

UM--I HAVE TO SAY I DO THINK THE FAA HAS BEEN AWARE OF SOME OF THESE PROBLEMS FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME.

TO TAKE ONE SMALL EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, AS LONG AGO AS 2020 AND MAYBE EARLIER, I KNOW 2020 QUALITY CONTROL PEOPLE IN THE WASHINGTON NATIONAL REAGAN AIRPORT SAID THERE WERE TOO MANY HELICOPTERS COMING UP AND DOWN OUR AIRSPACE AND SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT THAT, AND NO MAJOR STEPS WERE TAKEN.

SO, I THINK THE FAA IS AWARE OF ALL THESE ISSUES, AND CERTAINLY THEY WANT SAFE SKIES.

CERTAINLY THEY DON'T WANT ANY CASUALTIES.

UM--I THINK THERE ARE PLENTY OF HARD-WORKING KNOWLEDGEABLE PEOPLE THERE, AND THEY ARE ALL COMMITTED TO THAT.

BUT IS IT A LACK OF FUNDING?

IS IT A PROBLEMATIC STRUCTURE AS YOU SUGGESTED WITH THE REGULATORY FIX?

IS IT THIS SORT OF CONSTANTLY CHANGING LEADERSHIP?

WE TEND TO SEE CHANGING LEADERSHIP WITH A NEW ADMINISTRATION, BUT IF YOU COUNT ACTING ADMINISTRATORS WE'VE SEEN FIVE FAA ADMINISTRATORS IN FIVE YEARS.

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE CONCERNED THERE MIGHT BE IMPACTS TO STAFFING WITH THE EFFORTS THAT D.O.G.E.

AND THE NEW ADMINISTRATION CAME IN, THEY WANTED TO CUT COSTS-- HAS ANY OF THAT HAPPENED, OR IS IT LIKELY TO MAKE THINGS WORSE?

>> SO MY REPORTING SUGGESTS THAT D.O.G.E.

HAS NOT CUT INTO THIS AREA.

SEAN DUFFY, THE TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY, HAD SAID IN THE INITIAL WEEKS OF D.O.G.E.

WE ARE NOT CUTTING ANY AIR- TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS, WE ARE NOT CUTTING ANY SAFETY WORKERS.

IT WAS A LITTLE CONFUSING AT FIRST, BECAUSE SOME OF THOSE MASS EMAILS THAT WENT TO FEDERAL EMPLOYEES FROM THE OFFICE OF PERSONAL MANAGEMENT, WERE RECEIVED BY AIR-TRAFFIC CONTROLLERS, AND I THINK SOME OF THEM DID MOVE TO TAKE THE DEFERRED RETIREMENT PACKAGE.

BUT, THEY WERE BLOCKED FROM DOING SO.

WHAT I DON'T KNOW, AND IT'S AN INTERESTING QUESTION TO PONDER, HAVE THERE BEEN OTHER CUTS TO PARTS OF THE FAA COMPLEX, IF YOU WILL, THAT HAVE AFFECTED THESE WORKERS?

I THINK IT MAY TAKE LONGER TO SEE THE IMPACT OF THOSE TYPES OF CUTS.

BUT SO FAR I THINK THIS CORE FUNCTION IS UNTOUCHED.

>> I ALSO WONDER, PART OF OUR CONVERSATION TALKED ABOUT TECHNOLOGY READ AND I MEAN, I'M NOT THAT OLD, BUT I HAVE HEARD THE GOVERNMENT TRIED TO MAKE ATTEMPTS AT OVERHAULING OUR TECHNOLOGY IN THE SKIES ADDING GPS TO AIRPLANES, CHANGING THINGS ON THE GROUND AT LEAST FOR A COUPLE DECADES NOW.

AND I'M WONDERING WHERE ARE WE IN THE TRANSITION?

>> YOU KNOW, WE ARE NOT VERY FAR ALONG UNFORTUNATELY.

THERE HAS BEEN SOME ATTENTION TO THIS RECENTLY, BECAUSE I THINK SECRETARY DUFFY UM-- HAS TAKEN THE OPPORTUNITY OF, YOU KNOW, THE FOCUS ON AVIATION AFTER THIS TRAGIC CRASH IN JANUARY AND THE PROBLEMS AT NEWARK, TOO, SEES SOME POLITICAL MOMENTUM AND SOLVE SOME PROBLEMS.

SO , HE HAS PROPOSED GETTING RID OF PAPER STRIPS THAT ARE USED TO PROVIDE FLIGHT INFORMATION AND KIND OF PUT ON THE WALL IN AIR-TRAFFIC CONTROL CENTERS AND REPLACE THEM WITH DIGITAL STRIPS.

--TRADE ASSOCIATION WERE HOLDING UP FLOPPY DISKS AND PAPER STRIPS AT A PRESS CONFERENCE TO SHOW HOW AGED THIS SYSTEM WAS, OR IS.

UM--I THINK , TO BE HONEST, SOME OF THESE SYSTEMS TO BE FUNCTIONING FINE EVEN IF THE TECHNOLOGY IS OLD, BUT SOME OF THEM ARE CLEARLY NOT.

AND WHAT'S A LITTLE UNNERVING IS I DON'T HAVE A CLEAR SENSE, AND I DON'T THINK CONTROLLERS DO, OF WHAT THE PROBLEMS ARE.

WHY ARE WE AT THIS TIPPING POINT WHERE WE ARE SEEING ISSUES NATIONWIDE?

IN LONGMONT, COLORADO, LAST WEEK, THERE WAS A 90-2ND OUTAGE OF EQUIPMENT.

AND THIS WAS IN THE DENVER AREA.

SO WE ARE SEEING POCKETS OF DYSFUNCTION THROUGHOUT THE COUNTRY.

AND CLEARLY THE FAA NEEDS TO TROUBLESHOOT WHAT THE SOURCE OF THESE PROBLEMS IS OR ARE AND TRY TO REMEDY THEM.

>> WHAT IS IT THAT SLOWS THINGS DOWN?

ADMINISTRATION AFTER ADMINISTRATION, IT SEEMS , TO BIPARTISAN WAY, WANT TO KEEP US SAFE IN THE SKIES, BUT WE DON'T BE ABLE TO SEEM TO DO THE THING THERE ARE PLENTY OF THESE REPORTS THAT ARE WRITTEN.

HERE'S WHAT THE PROBLEM IS.

HERE'S WHAT THE SOLUTION IS.

HERE'S HOW MUCH IT WILL COST.

SO THAT'S NOT THE SECRET.

>> I'M NOT AN EXPERT ON GOVERNMENT PROCUREMENT, BUT THE PROCESS, I DO THINK THE REGULATORY AND SORT OF POLICY SYSTEMS FOR BIDDING ON NEW WORK, TAKING BIDS, KIND OF TROUBLESHOOTING THOSE BIDS, HIRING A CONTRACTOR, GIVING THEM A MULTIYEAR ROLLOUT PERIOD, IT'S ALL VERY SLOW.

I THINK PROBABLY NOT ENOUGH HAS BEEN THROWN AT THE PROBLEM, NOT TO SAY I AM EMBRACING BIG-TIME GOVERNMENT SPENDING.

BUT, THIS IS A SYSTEM THE GOVERNMENT RUNS AND ARGUABLY SHOULD RUN, AND IT COSTS BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN ORDER TO BE STATE-OF- THE-ART.

THE LAST TIME THE FAA HAD ITS BUDGET REAUTHORIZED WAS 2023 UNDER THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION.

SOME OF THE ARGUMENTS AT THE TIME HAD TO DO WITH THINGS LIKE ADDING NEW SLOTS TO WASHINGTON REAGAN AIRPORT.

ADDING ADDITIONAL FLIGHTS TO THAT ALREADY CONGESTED AIRPORT.

THESE THINGS TAKE UP VALUABLE ATTENTION AND AIRTIME AND MORE LIKE BORING PROCESS ORIENTED STUFF, BUT LIKE ACTUALLY PROVIDING THIS SORT OF CABLE NETWORK THAT UNDERPINS AVIATION SAFETY, DOES NOT GET AS MUCH AIR TIME, BECAUSE IT'S LOCATED, AND THE PUBLIC MAY NOT HAVE SEIZED ON IT AND PUSHED FOR CHANGE EVEN THOUGH IT WOULD HELP.

>> WHAT WE HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT FOR THE PAST 15 MINUTES ARE REALLY DEEP PROBLEMS THAT AREN'T GOING TO BE FIXED OVERNIGHT.

SO, AM I AS A PASSENGER SAFE WHEN I TRAVEL IN THE UNITED STATES?

SHOULD I JUST PLAN FOR MORE DELAYS OR OUTAGES AS WE HEAD INTO THIS SEASON?

>> FIRST OF ALL I THINK WE HAVE TO ASSUME AND HOPE THAT THE FAA WILL KEEP SAFETY TOPMOST AS THEY LOOK AT AIR TRAFFIC CONTROLLING STAFFING , AND IF THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH CONTROLLERS THAT THEY HAVE A STAFFING TRIGGER, AND THEY GROUND FLIGHTS.

BETTER TO BE LATE THAN RISK SAFETY OR MISS A FLIGHT.

THEN TO --THAN TO RISK SAFETY.

SO I THINK WE SHOULD BE PREPARED FOR DELAYS AND ISSUES ALONG THE WAY.

I WOULD NOT WANT TO SAY TO YOUR AUDIENCE DON'T FLY, I'D--I HAVE NO INFORMATION TO SAY IT'S NOT SAFE.

ISSUES THAT SEEM TO BE COMING TO A HEAD RIGHT NOW.

I THINK I WOULD GIVE THOSE AIR TRAVEL DAYS A WIDE BERTH, PLAN ON BEING FLEXIBLE, AND YOU KNOW, MAYBE CONSIDER THE TRAIN OR THE CAR IF IT'S PRAGMATIC.

AND IF NOT YOU ARE GOING TO BE FINE.

THAT WOULD BE MY THOUGHT.

>> KATE KELLY, NEW YORK TIMES, THANK YOU SO MUCH.