>> HELLO, EVERYONE.

WELCOME TO AMANPOUR AND COMPANY.

HERE'S WHAT'S COMING UP.

>> IN UKRAINE, CIVILIAN CASUALTIES FOUND.

I AM JOINED TO DISCUSS THE HUMAN TOLL OF NEWTON'S WORK.

>> CONCERN IN WASHINGTON OVER REPORTS ISRAEL IS PREPARING TO STRIKE IRAN'S NUCLEAR FACILITIES.

DAVID'S ANGER HAS THE LATEST.

>> CIVILIANS ARE CAUGHT IN THE CROSSFIRE OF SUDAN'S LITTLE WAR.

PHOTOGRAPHER CHARLES COBB IS A WITNESS.

>> LATER, DON'T BE GAY.

EMMY-WINNING COMEDIAN JERROD CARMICHAEL TALKS TO MICHELLE MARTIN ABOUT HIS LATEST STANDUP SPECIAL.

> >> AMANPOUR AND COMPANY IS MADE POSSIBLE IN PART BY THE ANDERSON FAMILY ENDOWMENT, JIM ATTWOOD AND LESLIE WILLIAMS, CANDACE KING WEIR, THE SYLVIA A.

AND SIMON B. POYTA PROGRAMMING ENDOWMENT TO FIGHT ANTISEMITISM, LEILA AND MICKEY STRAUS FAMILY CHARITABLE TRUST, MARK J. BLECHNER, FILOMEN M. D'AGOSTINO FOUNDATION, SETON J. MELVIN, PETER G. PETERSON AND JOAN GANZ COONEY FUND, CHARLES ROSENBLUM, KOO AND PATRICIA YUEN --COMMITTED TO BRIDGING CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN OUR COMMUNITIES, BARBARA HOPE ZUCKERBERG, JEFFREY KATZ AND BETH ROGERS, AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION THROUGH VERS LIKE YOU.

THANK YOU.

>> WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM, EVERYONE.

I'M CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR IN LONDON.

IT'S THE ANNIVERSARY OF RUSSIA DECLARING SOVEREIGNTY FROM THE SOVIET UNION IN 1990.

THE U.S. STATE DEPARTMENT SAID CONGRATULATIONS EVEN AS RUSSIA CONTINUES TO VIOLATE THE SOVEREIGNTY OF ITS NEIGHBOR UKRAINE.

THERE WERE MORE STRIKES AND CIVILIAN DEATHS OVERNIGHT AND SOLDIERS RETURNING AMIDST AN ONGOING PRISONER EXCHANGE BRING REPORTS OF SEVERE ABUSE WHILE HELD IN CUSTODY.

A NOBEL LAUREATE IS PUSHING FOR JUSTICE AND ACCOUNTABILITY AS NEGOTIATIONS CONTINUE FOR AN END TO THE WAR.

IT'S A MESSAGE SHE'S TAKEN TO THE UK PARLIAMENT AND SHE JOINS ME IN LONDON.

WELCOME TO THE PROGRAM.

>> THANK YOU FOR THE INVITATION.

>> WHAT DID YOU TELL THE UK PARLIAMENT AND WHAT DO YOU WANT THEM TO DO?

>> IN RECENT MONTHS WE HEARD A LOT ABOUT NATURAL MINERALS, PRECIOUS CLAIMS, GEOPOLITICAL INTEREST BUT WE DID NOT HEAR ABOUT PEOPLE.

WE STILL HAVE NO IDEA WHAT WILL BE WITH MORE THAN 20,000 UKRAINIAN CHILDREN ILLEGALLY DEPORTED TO RUSSIA.

WHAT WILL BE WITH THOUSANDS AND SOUND --THOUSANDS OF MEN AND WOMEN AS WELL AS PRISONERS OF WAR SUBJECTED TO HORRIBLE TORTURE AND SEXUAL ABUSE DAILY.

WHAT WILL BE WITH PEOPLE UNDER RUSSIAN OCCUPATION IN GENERAL.

WE SPEAK ABOUT MILLIONS.

THESE PEOPLE HAVE NO TOOLS TO DEFEND THEIR RIGHTS, THEIR FREEDOM, THEIR PROPERTY, THEIR LIVES, THEIR CHILDREN, THEIR LOVED ONES.

WE MUST RETURN HUMAN DIMENSION TO THE PEACE TALK.

>> THERE ARE NO REAL PEACE TALKS.

DO YOU EXPECT THIS HUMAN DIMENSION TO BE POSSIBLE WHILE A WAR LIKE THIS IS GOING ON?

>> RUSSIA DOES NOT WANT PEACE.

IT IS TRUE BECAUSE PUTIN STARTED THIS WAR NOT BECAUSE -- HE STARTED LARGE-SCALE WAR BECAUSE HE WANTS TO OCCUPY AND DESTROY UKRAINE.

HE SEES UKRAINE AS A BRIDGE TO EUROPE.

HE DREAMS ABOUT HIS LEGACY.

HE WANTS TO FORCIBLY RESTORE THE RUSSIAN EMPIRE.

THIS IS HIS GOAL BUT DESPITE OF THAT WE MUST DO EVERYTHING TO SAVE PEOPLE.

>> ARE YOU ENCOURAGED THAT THERE ARE PERIODIC -- THERE HAS BEEN A RECENT EXCHANGE OF P.O.W.s AND REMAINS OF DEAD SOLDIERS.

>> IT IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT THE EXCHANGE IS CONDUCTED.

1000 UKRAINIANS WERE RETURNED.

SEVERAL DOZENS JUST RECENTLY.

AMONG THEM, ZERO CIVILIANS.

THE CIVILIANS RUSSIA RETURNED, IT WAS NOT PEOPLE THAT WERE ILLEGALLY ARRESTED AND ABDUCTED AND OCCUPIED TERRITORY.

IT WAS CIVILIANS RUSSIA PREPARED TO DEPORT FROM THEIR TERRITORY.

IT IS JUST A TRICK.

WE MUST FIND LEVERAGE TO PUSH PUTIN TO RELEASE ILLEGALLY DETAINED PEOPLE.

>> WHAT ACTUALLY IS GOING ON?

YOUR GOVERNMENT PUT OUT AN INCREDIBLE STATISTIC.

1.

6 MILLION JUST CHILDREN LIVING UNDER OCCUPIED RUSSIAN PARTS OF UKRAINE.

WHAT ARE YOU HEARING FROM THERE?

OBVIOUSLY SOME PEOPLE DO NOT WANT TO LIVE UNDER RUSSIAN OCCUPATION.

THAT IS THE POINT OF THE CONTINUED RESISTANCE.

WE ALSO HEAR THAT SOME PEOPLE ARE EITHER PRO-RUSSIAN OR THE PROPAGANDA AND BRAINWASHING HAS WORKED OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS.

>> WE HAVE TO UNDERSTAND IT IS VERY DIFFICULT FOR MILLIONS OF PEOPLE TO LEAVE THEIR HOMES.

THEY'VE LOST EVERYTHING THEY'VE EARNED FROM THEIR WHOLE LIFE JUST TO GO NOWHERE.

THEY JUST TRY TO SURVIVE.

THAT IS WHY THERE ARE STILL A LOT OF PEOPLE LIVING UNDER RUSSIAN OCCUPATION.

YES, AMONG THEM 1,000,600 CHILDREN.

RUSSIA PROHIBITED UKRAINIAN LANGUAGE AND CULTURE.

RUSSIA MILITARIZED THESE CHILDREN STARTING FROM KINDERGARTEN.

FOR EXAMPLE, THEIR PARENTS ARE FORCED TO GIVE THEIR CHILDREN REGULARLY TO SO-CALLED SPORTS AND REEDUCATION CAMPS.

UKRAINIAN CHILDREN ARE TAUGHT HOW TO USE WEAPONS.

THEY ARE PREPARING A NEW GENERATION OF PUTIN'S SOLDIERS FROM THIS 1,000,600 CHILDREN.

AT THE AGE OF 14 THEY WILL RECEIVE A RUSSIAN PASSPORT.

AT THE AGE OF 18 THEY WILL BE FORCED TO JOIN THE RUSSIAN ARMY.

>> I HAD NOT REALIZED THAT.

IN THE MEANTIME SOME OF THE PRISONERS COMING BACK TALK ABOUT BEING ABUSED PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY, SEXUALLY.

THAT IS AGAINST THE GENEVA CONVENTION ON HOW YOU SHOULD TREAT P. O. W. s. ONE OF THE LAST TIMES I WAS IN UKRAINE I TALKED TO SOME OF THESE THAT HAD BEEN RELEASED.

HERE'S A LITTLE ABOUT WHAT ONE COUPLE TOLD ME.

>> THEY HIT ME IN THE FACE AND KICKED ME.

MY FRONT TEETH WERE ALSO CHIPPED.

>> THEY WOULD BEAT US 5 TO 6 TIMES A DAY FOR NOTHING.

THEY WOULD TAKE US INTO THE HALLWAY AND BEAT US UP.

>> ARE YOU HEARING MORE OF THAT KIND OF REPORTING?

>> I HAVE INTERVIEWED PEOPLE THAT SURVIVED CAPTIVITY.

MEN AND WOMEN, MOSTLY CIVILIANS.

THEY TOLD ME HOW THEY WERE BEATEN, SMASHED INTO WIND -- WOODEN BOXES.

ELECTRICAL SHOT THROUGH GENITALIA.

ONE YOUNG GIRL TOLD ME HOW SHE WAS FORCED TO WRITE SOMETHING WITH HER OWN BLOOD.

ANOTHER WOMAN TOLD ME HER I WAS DUG OUT WITH A SPOON.

THERE WAS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR SUCH ACTIONS.

THERE'S NO LEGITIMATE REASON.

THERE IS ALSO NO MILITARY NECESSITY.

RUSSIANS HAVE DONE THESE HORRIBLE THINGS ONLY BECAUSE THEY COULD.

>> YOU CALLED FOR A PUTIN TRIBUNAL.

YOU ALSO SAY THE CURRENT INTERNATIONAL SYSTEM OF JUSTICE AND PEACE IS OUTDATED AND INEFFECTIVE.

WHAT WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE BESIDES THE FOCUS ON THE HUMAN AND HUMANITARIAN?

>> I WANT TO SEE BRAVERY AND REAL HISTORICAL RESPONSIBILITY.

IT'S NOT JUST A UKRAINIAN PROBLEM.

THE COUNTRY, THE ENTIRE INTERNATIONAL LAW IN THE VERY PRINCIPLE OF STATE BORDERS.

IF PUTIN SUCCEEDS AND REMAINS UNPUNISHED IT WILL ENCOURAGE OTHER AUTHORITARIAN LEADERS IN DEEPER PARTS OF THE GLOBE TO DO THE SAME.

I WANT TO SEE A NEW NUREMBERG IN THE 21st CENTURY.

>> THAT WAS SET UP TO TRY WAR CRIMINALS.

>> WITH ONE MAIN DIFFERENCE.

WHAT WAS THE NUREMBERG TRIAL?

IT WAS A VICTORIOUS TRIAL.

IT WAS A TRIAL WHEN THEY WERE TRIED ONLY AFTER THE REGIME HAD COLLAPSED.

IT SHOWED THAT JUSTICE IS A PRIVILEGE TO WINNERS BUT WE LIVE IN A NEW CENTURY.

WE MUST MOVE FURTHER.

WE MUST MAKE JUSTICE AND DEPENDING ON THE FACT HOW AND WHEN THE WAR WILL END.

WE CANNOT WAIT.

>> YOU HAVE TO CAPTURE THEM.

THAT WILL NOT HAPPEN.

>> WE CAN ESTABLISH A SPECIAL TRIBUNAL AND TRIAL IN ABSENTIA.

IT MAKES FOR THE WORLD VERY SMALL AND MAKES FOR DEMOCRATIC LEADERS VERY HARD TO SHAKE HIS HANDS.

>> IT IS QUITE EXTRAORDINARY THAT UNDER THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION SEVERAL KEY ORGANIZATIONS THAT HAVE BEEN TRACKING SOME OF THE LAST CHILDREN, SOME OF THE DEPORTED CHILDREN AND ABDUCTED CHILDREN HAVE BEEN DISBANDED.

WHAT IS YOUR REACTION TO THAT?

LET ME SEE WHAT IT IS CALLED.

THE HUMANITARIAN RESEARCH LAB.

ALSO, THERE WAS ANOTHER ORGANIZATION THAT WAS SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO TAKE ACCOUNT OF WAR CRIMES AND THAT SITUATION WHICH HAS BEEN GUTTED AND ENDED BY THIS ADMINISTRATION.

DOES THAT HAVE A SIGNIFICANT EFFECT?

WAS IT DOING A GOOD JOB BEFORE?

>> THEY WERE DOING A UNIQUE JOB BEFORE.

I HOPE THIS DECISION WILL BE TAKEN.

THE FINANCE TO THESE ORGANIZATIONS DOING INCREDIBLE EFFORTS TO IDENTIFY THESE CHILDREN IN THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION WHICH LIKE THE FIRST STEP TO RETURN THEM WILL BE CONTINUED.

RUSSIAN LEGISLATION PROVIDED FOR THEM TO CHANGE THE NAME OF THE CHILD, THE DATE OF BIRTH, THE PLACE OF BIRTH.

EVEN WHEN THESE CHILDREN HAVE PARENTS, SMALL KIDS LIKE TWO OR THREE YEARS OLD THE PARENTS WILL HAVE LESS CHANCE TO FIND THEM BECAUSE JUST IN A MONTH OR 1 TO 2 YEARS THE RUSSIANS COMPLETELY ERODE THE IDENTITY OF THESE KIDS.

>> JUST TO REMIND, THE ICC DID PUT OUT ARREST WARRANTS FOR PUTIN AND THOSE THAT ARE IN CHARGE OF THESE ABDUCTED CHILDREN.

OF COURSE, NOTHING HAS HAPPENED.

WHAT YOU MAKE OF THE CURRENT U. S. POSITION OF UKRAINE AND THE WAR.

I WILL PLAY YOU SOMETHING THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID RECENTLY THAT IT IS LIKE PUTIN, HE LIKENED THEM TO CHILDREN FIGHTING IN A PLAYGROUND.

>> SOMETIMES YOU SEE TWO YOUNG CHILDREN FIGHTING LIKE CRAZY, THEY HATE EACH OTHER AND THEY ARE FIGHTING IN A PARK.

YOU TRY TO PULL THEM APART.

SOMETIMES YOU ARE BETTER OFF LETTING THEM FIGHT FOR A WHILE AND THEN PULLING THEM APART.

I GAVE THAT ANALOGY TO PUTIN YESTERDAY.

I SAID, PRESIDENT, MAYBE YOU WILL HAVE TO KEEP FIGHTING AND SUFFERING A LOT BECAUSE BOTH SIDES ARE SUFFERING BEFORE THEY ARE ABLE TO BE PULLED APART.

IT'S A PRETTY KNOWN ANALOGY.

YOU HAVE TWO KIDS THEY FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT.

SOMETIMES YOU LET THEM FIGHT A LITTLE WHILE.

YOU SEE IT IN HOCKEY.

YOU SEE IT IN SPORTS.

THEY LET THEM GO FOR A LITTLE WHILE BEFORE YOU PULL THEM APART.

>> WHAT YOU MAKE OF THAT?

>> UNFORTUNATELY IT'S NOT CHILDREN.

IT IS A REAL WAR AND A VERY BLOODY ONE.

A WAR WHERE RUSSIA USES WAR CRIMES.

RUSSIA DELIBERATELY HITS RESIDENTIAL BUILDINGS, CHURCHES, MUSEUMS AND HOSPITALS, TORTURING PERSONS.

KILLING CIVILIANS IN OCCUPIED TERRITORIES.

DOING EVERYTHING TO BREAK RESISTANCE AND OCCUPY THE COUNTRY.

I WISH PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP WILL DEMONSTRATE STRENGTH TO STOP PUTIN.

>> TELL ME A ABOUT PEOPLE'S RESISTANCE.

RUSSIA KEEPS SAYING IT IS WINNING.

IT SAYS IT HAS TIME.

IT THINKS IT CAN OUTLAST AND IT IS COUNTING ON PRESIDENT TRUMP TO PULL BACK BECAUSE THAT WILL PUT UKRAINE IN A VERY DISADVANTAGES POSITION.

WHAT IS THE SPIRIT IN UKRAINE?

WHAT IS THE LEVEL OF RESISTANCE?

>> WE HAVE NO OTHER CHOICE.

PUTIN OPENLY SAYS THERE IS NO UKRAINIAN NATION.

THERE'S NO UKRAINIAN LANGUAGE.

THERE'S NO UKRAINIAN CULTURE.

FOR 11 YEARS WE'VE DOCUMENTED WHAT RUSSIAN TROOPS ARE DOING IN OCCUPIED TERRITORIES, HOW THEY TRANSFER THIS TO PRACTICE AND PHYSICALLY EXTERMINATE LOCAL PEOPLE AND COMMUNITIES.

MAYORS, JOURNALISTS, CHILDREN, WRITERS, PRIESTS, ENVIRONMENTALISTS.

HOW THEY BANISH UKRAINIAN CULTURE.

HOW THEY TAKE UKRAINIAN CHILDREN, PUT THEM IN RUSSIAN EDUCATION CAMPS, TOLD THEM YOU ARE RUSSIAN CHILDREN.

YOUR PARENTS AND YOUR FAMILIES REFUSED YOU AND YOU WILL BE ADOPTED BY RUSSIAN FAMILIES.

WE REALLY HAVE NO CHOICE.

IF WE STOP FIGHTING, IF WE STOP RESISTING RUSSIAN AGGRESSION WE WILL CEASE TO EXIST.

WE WILL DISAPPEAR AS A NATION.

>> IT IS AS DRAMATIC AND AS STARK AS THAT.

UKRAINE HAS RECEIVED THE SYMPATHY AND SUPPORT OF MUCH OF THE WORLD, NOT ALL OF THE WORLD.

AS YOU KNOW A LOT OF THE GLOBAL SOUTH BUYS THE RUSSIAN NARRATIVE.

YOU MET THE KING.

WHAT SENSE -- I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU CAN TELL US ABOUT YOUR MEETING, BUT WHAT SENSE DO YOU GET OF THE SUPPORT UKRAINE STILL ENJOYS FROM PEOPLE LIKE HIMSELF.

IT'S A LOVELY PICTURE OF YOU THERE.

OTHER COUNTRIES AND GOVERNMENTS AND CIVIL SOCIETY AND THOSE KIND OF GROUPS?

>> I'M HUMAN RIGHTS LAWYER.

AND I KNOW THAT YOU CAN ALWAYS ALIGN WITH PEOPLE.

PEOPLE HAVE A MUCH GREATER IMPACT THAN THEY CAN IMAGINE.

I WOULD LIKE TO USE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO EXPRESS MY SINCERE GRATITUDE TO THE PEOPLE IN THE UNITED KINGDOM, AND THE UNITED STATES, IN FRANCE, SWITZERLAND, THE COUNTRIES THAT HAVE SUPPORTED US IN OUR FIGHT FOR FREEDOM AND HUMAN DIGNITY.

THERE ARE A LOT OF THINGS WHICH HAVE NO LIMITATION IN NATIONAL BORDERS.

FREEDOM HAS NO LIMITATION AND SOLIDARITY ALSO HAS NO LIMITATION IN NATIONAL BORDERS.

>> I'M GLAD YOU FEEL YOU ARE GETTING THAT.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

THE U. S. STATE AND DEFENSE DEPARTMENTS ARE ARRANGING FOR THE DEPARTURE OF NONESSENTIAL PERSONNEL FROM LOCATIONS AROUND THE MIDDLE EAST.

THE MOVE IS LINKED TO U. S. INTELLIGENCE REPORTS THAT ISRAEL IS PREPARING TO STRIKE NUCLEAR FACILITIES.

TODAY THEY WARNED THEY WOULD RAMP UP ACTIVITIES AFTER THE ATOMIC ENERGY AGENCY DECLARED THE BREACH OF ITS NONPROLIFERATION AGREEMENT.

IT'S THE FIRST TIME THE U. N. WATCHDOG HAS PASSED A RESOLUTION AGAINST THEM IN 20 YEARS.

THE CHIEF SAYS WELL IRAN ENRICHING URANIUM IS NOT FORBIDDEN, THE DETAILS MATTER.

HERE IS WHAT HE SAID.

>> WHEN YOU ACCUMULATE AND CONTINUE TO ACCUMULATE, AND YOU ARE THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD THAT IS DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS AT THE LEVEL WHICH IS VERY CLOSE TO THE LEVEL THAT YOU NEED TO HAVE A NUCLEAR EXPLOSIVE DEVICE WE CANNOT IGNORE IT.

>> NUCLEAR NEGOTIATIONS ARE SET TO RESUME ON SUNDAY.

PRESIDENT TRUMP SAID HE'S GETTING LESS CONFIDENT SAYING IRAN COULD BE DELAYING AN AGREEMENT.

LET'S GET THE LATEST WITH DAVID SANGER.

THANK YOU FOR BEING WITH US.

CAN I ASK YOU, YOU WERE LISTENING TO PRESIDENT TRUMP EARLIER TODAY.

HE SAID SEVERAL THINGS FAIRLY CLOSE TO AN AGREEMENT, THEN I WOULD PREFER TO HAVE A FRIENDLY PATH.

THEN HE SAID, I'M NOT SURE IT WILL WORK.

MAYBE ISRAEL IS GOING TO STRIKE.

IT SEEMED LIKE MIXED MESSAGES.

WHAT DID YOU READ FROM IT?

>> IT WAS VERY MIXED.

I THOUGHT THE MOST INTERESTING AND IMPORTANT THING HE SAID WAS THAT HE DID NOT WANT ISRAEL TO STRIKE WHILE HE STILL THOUGHT HE COULD GET A DEAL WHICH IS CONSISTENT WITH WHAT HE HAS TOLD BENJAMIN NETANYAHU AT SEVERAL POINTS.

THE QUESTION IS WHAT CHANGED THAT MADE EVERYBODY BELIEVE ISRAEL MIGHT STRIKE AS SOON AS THESE NEXT COUPLE OF DAYS?

A FEW THINGS.

THE FIRST IS THAT THE TRUMP ADMINISTRATION PUT A PROPOSAL IN FRONT OF THE IRANIANS THAT WOULD HAVE OVERTIME GOTTEN THEM OUT OF THE BUSINESS OF ENRICHING URANIUM ON IRANIAN SOIL AND JOINING A CONSORTIUM IN THE MIDDLE EAST THAT WOULD MAKE THE FUEL FOR NUCLEAR POWER PLANTS AROUND THE REGION.

THIS SEEMED LIKE A FAIRLY GRACEFUL WAY OUT BECAUSE THEY COULD SAY THEY WERE NOT GIVING UP ANYTHING FOR YEARS TO COME, BUT THEY REJECTED IT.

NOW THE STATE DEPARTMENT THIS MORNING SAID THAT STEVEN WITKOFF, THE SPECIAL ENVOY IS GOING BACK TO MEET THEM ON SUNDAY.

THAT WOULD SEEM TO SUGGEST THAT THEY THINK THERE IS STILL SOMETHING TO TALK ABOUT.

MAYBE IT IS JUST TO ISSUE A WARNING BUT ISRAELIS MAY PREEMPT THAT.

THAT WAS PRETTY CLEAR.

>> AS WE KNOW ISRAEL HAS WANTED TO DO THIS ONLY TO PULL BACK USUALLY UNDER AMERICAN PRESSURE AND HAS NOT DONE IT.

FROM WHATEVER BACKWARD WAYS I'VE HEARD THAT THEY WERE FAIRLY CONFIDENT THEY COULD GET A DEAL.

AND, SOME SAYING THE U. S. HAS CHANGED THE GOALPOST.

THE CONSORTIUM YOU MENTIONED MIGHT BE REASONABLE TO SOME BUT IT WAS NOT HOW IT STARTED OUT.

HE SAID ONLY A NUCLEAR WEAPON IS THE REDLINE AND ENRICHMENT WOULD BE POSSIBLE.

THEN IT ALL STARTED TO GET MURKY.

>> FIRST OF ALL, I THINK THE WHITE HOUSE DID HAVE A VERY HARD TIME FIGURING OUT THEIR POSITION ON THIS.

INITIALLY THEY TOOK THE POSITION THAT IT MIGHT BE POSSIBLE FOR IRAN TO CONTINUE PRODUCING URANIUM, ENRICHING URANIUM AT A LOW LEVEL.

THEN THEY DISCOVERED THAT THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT WAS AT THE CORE OF THE OBAMA ERA AGREEMENT 10 YEARS AGO THAT PRESIDENT TRUMP EXITED FROM IN 2018.

AS THEY DISCUSSED THIS MORE THEY TOOK A MORE HARD-LINE WHICH IS NO PRODUCTION OF URANIUM AT ALL SO THAT IRAN COULD NOT RESTORE ITS PROGRAM.

NOW THEY HAVE BEEN SPENDING THEIR TIME TRYING TO THINK OF IMAGINATIVE WAYS THEY CAN GET THE IRANIANS TO SIGN ON TO THAT.

THE CONSORTIUM IS ONE OF THOSE.

THEY HAVE NOT EATEN YET.

I THINK WHAT WE ARE HEADED TOWARD IS THE ADMINISTRATION SAYING, YOU ARE EITHER GOING TO LOSE YOUR ENRICHMENT CAPABILITY THROUGH MILITARY FORCE OR THROUGH A NEGOTIATION, BUT EITHER WAY YOU ARE GOING TO LOSE IT.

>> LET ME PLAY TRUMP TO THIS POINT.

>> THEY ARE JUST ASKING FOR THINGS YOU CAN'T DO.

THEY SEEK ENRICHMENT.

WE CANNOT HAVE ENRICHMENT.

WE WANT JUST THE OPPOSITE.

SO FAR, THEY ARE NOT THERE.

I HATE TO SAY THAT BECAUSE THE ALTERNATIVE IS A VERY DIRE ONE, BUT THEY ARE NOT THERE.

>> IS THIS A SERIOUS WAY TO NEGOTIATE ABOUT SUCH A SERIOUS ISSUE TO HAVE SAID THIS AND THEN SAY THAT WAS OBAMA SO NOW WE ARE GOING TO CHANGE IT KNOWING VERY WELL IRAN'S POSITION.

IS IT SERIOUS?

HOW DO THEY THINK THEY WILL GET ACROSS THIS LINE?

TRUMP IS LOOKING LIKE HE DOES NOT WANT TO HAVE A MILITARY CONFRONTATION.

IS HE GOING TO SUPPORT AN ISRAELI STRIKE?

AND WHAT CAN ISRAEL ACTUALLY ACHIEVE?

>> ON THE FIRST POINT THEY REALLY NEEDED TO COME TO THIS POSITION MUCH EARLIER, BEFORE THEY ENGAGED.

THIS IS NOT A NEW ISSUE.

IT'S HIGHLY PREDICTABLE.

IT HAS BEEN THE CORE OF NEGOTIATIONS FOR YEARS AND YEARS.

I THINK THEY HAD SOME TROUBLE GETTING THEMSELVES ORGANIZED.

ONCE THEY GOT ORGANIZED THEY NEEDED SOME SPACE FROM THE ISRAELIS.

THE PRESIDENT GOT THAT BY TELLING PRIME MINISTER NETANYAHU HE DID NOT THINK IT WAS APPROPRIATE TO THREATEN MILITARY ACTION WHILE HE WAS NEGOTIATING.

NETANYAHU'S VIEW IS THAT THE IRANIANS HAVE NEVER BEEN MORE VULNERABLE.

THEY HAVE LOST AIR DEFENSES, HAMAS, HEZBOLLAH, THEY DO NOT HAVE PROXIES IN THE REGION SO THIS IN HIS VIEW IS THE BEST MOMENT TO GO STRIKE THEM.

TO THE THIRD QUESTION, I THINK YOU IDENTIFIED THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE.

IS IT USEFUL FOR ISRAEL TO GO AHEAD AND DO THIS BY THEMSELVES WHEN THEY CAN ONLY DESTROY SOME OF THE IRANIAN FACILITIES, BUT REALLY DON'T HAVE THE POWER TO GET TO THE DEEPEST ONE INSIDE A MOUNTAIN WHERE THE IRANIANS HAVE ELSE UP CONSIDERABLE CAPABILITY HALF A MILE UNDERNEATH THE SURFACE.

THE QUESTION IS IF YOU ONLY BOUGHT YOURSELF A YEAR AND A HALF OR TWO YEARS OR 2 1/2 YEARS OF TIME BECAUSE THE IRANIANS HAVE BEEN SET, IS THAT WORTH RISKING ANOTHER REGIONAL WAR?

>> AS YOU KNOW THEY HAVE THREATENED TO RETALIATE AND THREATENED TO REBUILD ASAP.

AS HE JUST SAID MORE WAR IN THE REGION DOES NOT SEEM TO BE WHAT ANYBODY CAN DEAL WITH INCLUDING THE UNITED STATES.

>> AND THE ARAB STATES.

THEY ARE ALL AGAINST IT.

>> ISRAEL MAYBE FOR BUT IT IS ALREADY IN A BIG WAR IN ITS OWN BACKYARD.

HANK YOU, WE WILL CONTINUE TO MONITOR THIS AND HAVE YOU BACK.

CIVILIANS ARE ALSO SUFFERING IN SUDAN WHERE A BRUTAL WAR RAGES ON.

THE WORLD FOOD PROGRAM IS RAMPING UP EFFORTS FOR NUTRITIONAL SUPPORT.

TOO MANY PEOPLE ARE STILL AT RISK OF FAMINE.

COMMUNITIES ON THE FRONT LINES ARE AT BREAKING POINTS OVERWHELMED BY DISPLACED FAMILIES IN DESPERATE NEED OF AID.

GILES CLARK IS A VETERAN PHOTOJOURNALIST.

HE HAS WORKED ALL OVER THE WORLD COVERING CONFLICT AND HUMANITARIAN CRISES.

HE HAS CAPTURED IMAGES LIKE THESE TO TELL THE HUMAN STORY OF THE WAR.

HE IS JOINING ME TO DESCRIBE WHAT HE FOUND.

WELCOME.

WE DON'T HEAR MUCH ABOUT SUDAN.

AS TERRIBLE AS IT IS THERE WERE PEAKS OF FINDING WHERE IT SEEMED TO DOMINATE THE NEWS, BUT NOT MUCH ANYMORE.

IN A WORD OR TWO, SUM UP WHAT YOU FOUND ACTUALLY BEING THERE ON THE GROUND.

>> WHEN I STARTED IN JANUARY 2025 IN THE MORNING EASTERN REGION WHERE MASS DISPLACEMENTS OF HALF 1 MILLION PEOPLE HAD FLED AND THE FIGHTING HAD SPREAD SOUTHERN PART THROUGH.

IT IS THESE TWO WAVES OF MASS DISPLACEMENT HAPPENED.

I FOCUS FIRST ON THAT AREA WHICH IS ONLY 30 KILOMETERS FROM THE BORDER, BUT VERY MUCH THE GROUND ZERO OF MASS DISPLACEMENT.

>> WE HAVE A FEW OF YOUR PICTURES.

THIS IS THE BABY THAT WAS BORN AFTER A DRONE STRIKE.

IT IS A DRAMATIC PICTURE.

ALMOST LIKE THE SHAFT OF LIGHT IS FOCUSING ON THAT LITTLE BEING AND IT IS VERY LITTLE.

PARENTS THEY'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO.

WHAT IS THE STORY BEHIND THAT IMAGE?

>> UNFORTUNATELY IT HAS SORT OF BECOME AN ALMOST DAILY ISSUE.

THEY HAVE ATTACKED THE INFRASTRUCTURE.

>> THAT IS THE ANTIGOVERNMENT FORCES?

>> EXACTLY.

>> THEY WERE ORIGINALLY SET UP BY THE SHEER.

>> THEY WERE COMMITTING GENOCIDE.

>> THEY WERE AN INSURGENCY GROUP.

IN THIS PARTICULAR IMAGE IT WAS A MORNING WHEN WE ALL WOKE UP I WAS IN A COMPOUND ABOUT 50 MILES AWAY.

WE WERE HEADING TOWARDS A SMALLER TOWN AND THERE WAS NO POWER ANYWHERE IN THE REGION.

THIS WAS A MOTHER WITH A PHONE LIGHT.

THE BABY HAD BEEN BORN IN A PHONE LIGHT.

NO GENERATORS, A LOT OF GENERATORS NEED DIESEL.

THESE RURAL REGIONS, THEY ARE OPERATING ON LITERALLY NOTHING.

>> SO THERE'S THAT AND WE DON'T KNOW WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN, BUT YOU ALSO SAW SOME VERY MALNOURISHED CHILDREN.

WE WILL PUT A PICTURE THERE.

THIS IS RENARD.

H3 SUFFERING FROM ACUTE MALNUTRITION.

SHE LOOKS MUCH YOUNGER.

ONE OF HUNDREDS OF BABIES TREATED AT A HOSPITAL THAT YOU WENT TO.

TELL ME THE SCALE OF THAT PARTICULAR ISSUE.

>> AS OPPOSED TO THE FIRST IMAGE, THIS ONE WAS MUCH MORE RECENT.

THIS WAS TOWARD THE END OF APRIL.

IT IS AFTER THE LIBERATION IN TERMS OF THE FIGHTING.

THE SUDANESE ARMY HAD FORCED OUT ABOUT THREE WEEKS BEFORE.

THAT SORT OF SPIKED A LOT OF PEOPLE TO WANTING TO GET TO THE HOSPITALS AFTER HAVING BEEN TRAPPED.

THIS PARTICULAR DAY I WAS THERE, THERE WAS ABOUT 100 VERY SMALL, VERY MALNOURISHED CHILDREN.

THAT HAD BEEN A 300% RISE ON THE WEEK BEFORE.

IT WAS GROWING AND AT THE SAME TIME, THE NEEDS FOR THAT SPIKE WERE NOT BEING MET.

>> YOU MENTIONED APRIL.

YOU OBVIOUSLY NOTICED A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHAT WAS BEING DELIVERED WHEN YOU FIRST GOT THERE IN JANUARY AND IN YOUR NEXT TRIP.

IN THAT INTERIM MUSK HAD TAKEN HIS FAMOUS CHAINSAW TO USAID AND THAT HAD A MATERIAL IMPACT ON LIFE-SUSTAINING FOOD AND HELP FOR PEOPLE.

>> PARTICULARLY, BEFORE HE DID HIS THING THERE WERE SORT OF 1400 COMMUNITY KITCHENS IN AND AROUND THE AREA ARE.

THAT WAS CUT DOWN TO -- 90% OF THOSE GOT TAKEN OUT.

THAT WAS PROVIDING FOOD FOR THE POPULATION.

THE INFRASTRUCTURE HAS BEEN TAKEN OUT.

ANY KIND OF REFRIGERATION, TRANSPORTATION WHICH RELIES ON ANY SORT OF REGULAR SERVICE.

IT JUST DOES NOT EXIST.

>> YOU SAID AS IT WAS DISMANTLED THAT IT WAS PANIC.

THE WORLD HUMANITARIAN AID SYSTEM COLLAPSED OVERNIGHT.

DID PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHAT IS HAPPENING DID THEY KNOW THEY HAD BEEN BENEFICIARIES OF USAID AND INTERNATIONAL AID AND NOW IT WAS NOT COMING.

WHERE THEY PANICKED?

>> I WAS ON THAT FIRST TRIP, I HAD AN INSIDE VIEW OF JUST HOW THAT WAS GOING DOWN IN REAL-TIME WHICH WAS VERY ALARMING.

IT STILL IS.

THE WHOLE COUNTRY, TALKING ABOUT IT THIS MORNING AND THE U. N. >> VERY ARTICULATE AND EVOCATIVE.

THE HEAD OF YOU AND HUMANITARIAN.

>> THE DIFFERENCE AND IMPUNITY BEING SHOWN TOWARD THE CRISIS, IT IS UNFORGIVABLE AT THIS POINT TICKET HAS BEEN GOING ON, IT CONTINUES TO HAPPEN.

A DRONE STRIKE EVERY TWO DAYS.

THEY ARE THE ONES WHO LOOTED.

THEY WERE THERE FOR TWO YEARS.

THAT WAS, I WANTED TO SEE THAT WITH MY OWN EYES.

I GOT THERE JUST A COUPLE OF WEEKS AFTER THAT LAST OF THE FIGHTING IT IS REALLY A COUNTRY THAT HAS BEEN STRANGLED BY THIS CIVIL WAR.

IT IS VERY DIFFICULT TO PUT INTO WORDS JUST HOW MUCH TRAUMA.

>> YOU SEE AS YOU ARE DRIVING ALONG.

YOU TOOK PICTURES OF THESE GRAVES BY THE ROADSIDE.

THERE IS JUST SO MUCH DEATH.

JUST QUICKLY DEALING WITH IT.

>> EXACTLY.

THIS WAS SOMETHING --BEARING IN MIND IT IS A MASSIVE CITY.

EVERYBODY FLED WITH NOTHING.

MOST EXPECTED TO COME BACK.

THE ONES THAT DID STAY HAD TO PUT UP WITH INTIMIDATION, ABUSE, AND GENERAL CIVIL WAR WITHIN THE STREETS.

>> A HUGE PROPORTION OF SEXUALLY RELATED VIOLENCE.

WERE YOU ABLE TO -- >> I WOULD GO TO SEE THAT FIRSTHAND IN THE DISPLACEMENT SITES.

>> YOU ARE SAYING THESE NAMES THAT I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY ARE.

>> IT IS WHERE THEY WENT WHEN THEY WERE DISPLACED.

THESE CAMPS HAD AGENCIES SET UP THAT THEY WERE DOING A LOT IN THE PROGRAM.

THEY WERE ALL TRYING TO HELP IN SOME WAY WITH TRAUMA COUNSELING.

LOCAL DOCTORS WERE COMING IN.

IT WAS VERY VISIBLE.

>> YOU HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR A LONG TIME.

HOW WERE YOU ABLE TO DEAL WITH ALL OF THIS?

>> ONCE YOU ARE THERE YOU REALIZE --FIRST OF ALL IT IS HARD.

>> THEY ARE ALSO KEEPING THE MEDIA OUT.

>> IT IS A VERY TRICKY, LONG- WINDED PROCESS.

IT TAKES WEEKS ONCE YOU LAND.

UNLESS YOU ARE MAYBE WITH THE U. N. AGENCY.

I REALIZED I HAD TO GET TO THE HEART OF THIS.

THAT IS MY THING.

I AM FOCUSED ON GETTING TO THE STORY.

>> UNT TO PRISONS AND SAW THIS KIND OF THING BUT YOU ALSO SAW DISPLACED PEOPLE.

SHE IS 22 YEARS OLD AND MUTE.

SHE COULD NOT EVEN HEAR THE EXPLOSIONS.

SHE TOLD YOU ALL I SAW WERE TERRIFIED FACES, BLOODY BODIES IN THE STREETS, CHILDREN AMONG THE DEAD AND ARMED MEN FILLED WITH RAGE.

>> I WAS IN THE TOWN NEAR THE BORDER WAY OUT EAST.

I WENT TO A FORMER SCHOOL WITH THE COORDINATION OUTFIT FROM THE U. N. I REALIZED, THERE ARE 400 FAMILIES AROUND THE SCHOOL BUT I REALIZED IT WAS A SET OF CLASSROOMS.

YOU JUST GET DRAWN TOWARDS PLACES.

I WENT OVER AND I MET A DOCTOR THAT SPOKE GOOD ENGLISH AND CAME OUT OF THE CLASSROOM AND INVITED ME FOR TEA.

IT WENT FROM THERE.

I REALIZED IT WAS JUST WOMEN.

AFTER A COUPLE OF DAYS, CLEARLY SHE WAS DIFFERENT.

OF COURSE, I FOUND OUT SHE HAS FLED.

SHE HAD BASIC TONSILLITIS AND THEY HAD NOT OPERATED SO OF COURSE HER HEARING WENT.

>> MUST BE TERRIFYING.

>> WHEN I GOT AROUND TO TALKING TO HER AND REALIZED THAT SHE HAD FLED AND LEFT HER HEARING AIDS.

SHE HAD TO GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS OF STEPPING OVER BODIES.

JUST TERRIFYING.

>> THANK YOU FOR BRINGING THEM TO US.

WE NEEDED TO TELL THESE STORIES SO THANK YOU FOR HELPING US DO IT.

IN THESE DARK TIMES, HAVING A GOOD LAUGH MATTERS MORE THAN EVER.

AFTER WINNING AN EMMY AND TURNING HIS LIFE INTO A REALITY SHOW, COMEDIAN JERROD CARMICHAEL IS BACK WITH A NEW SPECIAL, DON'T BE GAY.

IT LETS THE WORLD INTO SOME OF HIS MOST INTIMATE MOMENTS.

>> I STILL HAVE TO EXPRESS MY FEELINGS.

I HAVE TO TELL HIM WHEN HE'S HURT MY FEELINGS.

THAT IS REALLY DIFFICULT FOR ME TO DO BECAUSE THAT IS REALLY GAY.

>> HE JOINS MICHELLE MARTIN TO EXPLAIN WHY CONFRONTING DISCOMFORT HAS BECOME CENTRAL TO HIS STANDUP.

>> JERROD CARMICHAEL, THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR JOINING US.

>> THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME.

>> A LOT OF PEOPLE LOVE YOU WORK.

THEY HAVE FOLLOWED YOU THROUGH THICK AND THIN.

FOR PEOPLE WHO DO NOT KNOW YOUR WORK AND THEY ONLY KNOW YOUR LATEST PROJECT, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY?

>> I WOULD SAY I THINK IT'S AN HOUR OF GOOD STANDUP COMEDY.

I MOVED TO L. A.

WITH THE HOPES OF BEING A FUNNY COMEDIAN.

I EXPERIMENTED WITH FORM FOR MANY YEARS.

THIS IS MY BEST OUTING DOING TRADITIONAL STANDUP COMEDY.

THE HOPE WAS THAT PEOPLE WOULD LAUGH.

IT'S JUST AN UPDATE ON SOMEBODY IN A RELATIONSHIP TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TO DO WITH AGING PARENTS.

I THINK IT IS JUST KIND OF CLASSIC IN THAT WAY.

>> YOU SEEM VERY RELAXED.

I HAVE TO SAY.

>> I FEEL GOOD.

I JUST AT THE PHYSICAL.

MY CHOLESTEROL IS DOWN SO I FEEL GOOD.

>> YOU ALLUDED TO THIS.

YOU PUSH THE BOUNDARIES OF COMITY AND SELF-DISCOVERY IN A WAY THAT IS VERY FUNNY BUT ALSO POIGNANT.

IT HAS SOME PAIN POINTS IN IT.

IF HAD AN HBO REALITY SERIES THAT IS REAL AND RAW.

NOW YOUR LATEST PROJECT THE STANDUP SPECIAL IS DON'T BE GAY.

I DON'T FEEL REALLY GOOD SAYING THAT.

>> I LOVE YOU SO MUCH.

YOU REACTING TO IT IS MY FAVORITE THING.

>> NOW THAT I HAVE SAID IT ONCE I'M NOT GOING TO SAY IT AGAIN.

WHY IS THAT THE TITLE?

>> AFTER COMING OUT IT MADE ME REFLECT.

I HAVE BEEN DOING A LOT OF REFLECTION AND THERAPY.

REFLECTING ON MY LIFE AND WHY IT WAS HIDING AND THINKING ABOUT MASCULINITY A LOT.

>> WHEN YOU ARE RAISED STRAIGHT YOU KNOW THERE IS ONLY ONE ROLE.

DON'T BE GAY.

I BROKE THE ONLY ROLE.

>> I NAMED IT AFTER THE INTERNAL MONOLOGUE I'VE HAD.

IT HAS CAUSED ME TO BE SO SELF- AWARE.

IT'S LIKE THE BURDEN OF SELF- AWARENESS.

IT IS A STRENGTH IN COMITY BUT THE BURDEN IS ALWAYS WATCHING YOUR MANNERISMS AND HOW YOU INTERACT WITH PEOPLE AND HOW YOU MOVE IN A ROOM.

HOW I TALK AND HOW I HOLD MY HANDS.

ALL THESE THINGS I'M HYPERAWARE OF.

IT IS KIND OF IRONICALLY NAMED JUST BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT I WAS FIGHTING.

THAT WAS THE BIGGEST FIGHT OF MY LIFE.

>> IT IS A BOOKEND.

TALKING ABOUT BEING IN THE CLOSET AND THE PUBLIC AWAY IN WHICH YOU ANNOUNCED YOURSELF.

IT TAKES YOU ON THAT TRIP.

IS THIS THE BOOKEND?

>> I WOULD CALL IT MORE OF AN UPDATE.

I THINK MY CAREER IS ALWAYS JUST AN UPDATE TO EXACTLY WHERE I AM.

IT'S MY FIRST TIME AND HOPEFULLY THE ONLY TIME IN A RELATIONSHIP THAT ALLOWS ME TO SEE MYSELF.

I AM LIVING WITH SOMEONE ELSE AND WRITING A LOT OF MATERIAL AROUND THAT.

IT'S AN UPDATE TO EXACTLY WHERE I AM.

BEFORE I DID NOT THINK I DESERVED LOVE.

THERE WAS A LOT OF SHAME, A LOT OF CONFUSION AROUND HOW I WOULD SETTLE.

NOW I FEEL SETTLED, HAVING OTHER SOURCES OF CONFLICT.

IT IS JUST WHERE I AM RIGHT NOW.

THE NEXT PROJECT WILL HOPEFULLY JUST BE AN UPDATE TO EXACTLY WHERE I AM.

NOW I AM IN A RELATIONSHIP.

38, MY CHOLESTEROL IS DOWN 35 POINTS.

>> THERE YOU GO.

IT IS KIND OF ALL DONE.

THE RELATIONSHIP IS SO INTERESTING TO ME.

IT IS ITS OWN SHAUN RABB.

IT DID NOT INDICATE WHETHER YOU ARE MARRIED.

>> I PROPOSE MIKE THREE TIMES A MONTH.

HE KEEPS SAYING NO.

USUALLY AT THE END OF AN ARGUMENT I SAY LET'S JUST GET MARRIED.

HE JUST WALKS AWAY FROM ME.

>> I THINK THE TRADITIONAL MARRIED GUY COMITY OR EVEN MARRIED WOMAN COMITY WITH JOAN RIVERS BEING AN EXAMPLE OF THAT, YOU SORT OF PLAYOFF YOUR DIFFERENCES.

IN YOUR CASE THE DIFFERENCES YOU PLAY OFF OF OUR RACIAL BECAUSE YOUR BOYFRIEND IS WHITE, YOU TALK ABOUT THAT.

THERE IS ONE JOKE YOU TELL ABOUT HOW HE IS THE ONE THAT WANTED THE OPEN RELATIONSHIP AND YOU HAD A DIFFERENT IDEA.

>> MY IDEA WAS TO CHEAT AND LIVE A SECRET LIFE AND COME HOME AND SIT QUIETLY IN THE DRIVEWAY FOR A LONG TIME LIKE MY DAD.

>> THAT IS THE TRADITIONAL WAY.

THE RELATIONSHIP IS STRANGE AND GOES AGAINST EVERYTHING I WAS TAUGHT ABOUT MARRIAGE AND RELATIONSHIPS.

IT FORCES ME TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ALL THE TIME.

IT IS AN HONEST CONVERSATION BUT THE HARDEST ALL THE TIME.

>> THE OTHER THING YOU PLAY OFF OF HIS COMMUNICATION STYLES.

>> SOMETIMES MY BOYFRIEND SAYS STUFF IN A WAY THAT LETS ME KNOW HE'S NEVER BEEN PUNCHED IN THE FACE BEFORE.

IT'S A TONE THAT HE USES.

PASSIVE AGGRESSION IS WHITE VIOLENCE.

>> SAY MORE ABOUT THAT.

>> THAT'S A RINGING.

--UPBRINGING.

WHERE I'M FROM YOU SAY THE WRONG THING, YOU SPEAK IN THE WRONG TONE THERE IS A THREAT.

MY MOM WOULD GET A SWITCH FROM THE TREE.

I WAS NOT ALLOWED.

PART OF WHAT MAKES YOU A COMEDIAN IS FINDING CREATIVE WAYS.

THERE IS A THREAT.

MY BOYFRIEND WAS ABLE TO EXPRESS HIMSELF WITHOUT VIOLENCE.

IN A DIFFERENT ENVIRONMENT I COULD PUNCH YOU RIGHT NOW AND EVERYBODY WOULD BE ON MY SIDE.

I'M NOT IN THAT ENVIRONMENT.

I THINK ABOUT COMMUNICATION STYLES LIVING WITH SOMEONE THAT DID NOT GROW UP THE WAY THAT I GREW UP.

IT IS INTERESTING TO ME.

>> I THINK THAT IS WHY THE SPECIAL IS ABOUT YOU AS A BLACK GAY MAN.

ISN'T THAT WHY EVERYONE IS LAUGHING.

NONE OF US IS MARRIED TO THE PERSON THEY GREW UP IN THE SAME HOUSE WITH.

>> I TAKE ANYTHING THAT THEY DO TO BETTER THEMSELVES AS A PERSONAL INDICTMENT AGAINST ME.

HE WAKES UP BEFORE ME AND IT MAKES ME FEEL LAZY.

YOU ARE COMPARING.

>> THERE'S SOME REALLY PERSONAL THINGS.

HAVE YOU SEEN A COMFORT FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE EXPERIENCED THE THINGS YOU HAVE EXPERIENCED BUT DO NOT HAVE THE WORDS TO EXPRESS THEM.

IT'S COMFORTING FOR THEM TO KNOW, I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO FEELS LIKE THIS.

THAT SELF-DOUBT, INTERNALIZED HOMOPHOBIA.

I JUST WONDERED, DO YOU EVER THINK ABOUT THAT?

DO PEOPLE STOP YOU ON THE STREET AND SAY, YOU GAVE ME WORDS.

YOU SAID SOMETHING I FELT THAT COULD NOT SAY.

>> I'M NOT STOPPING MYSELF FROM CRYING IN THIS MOMENT BECAUSE I HAVE NOT FELT RESPONSIBILITY.

I JUST SAY WHAT I WANT AND EXPRESS MYSELF HOW I WANT.

IN RECENT YEARS I'VE STARTED TO FEEL THE RESPONSIBILITY TO PUT WORDS TO FEELINGS.

JUST TO HAVE A CONTRARIAN POINT JUST TO BE FUNNY.

I DO FEEL A RESPONSIBILITY TO BE HONEST IN A WAY THAT IS TRUE TO THE EMOTION.

IT IS MY JOY TO DO THAT AND IT'S MY PLEASURE TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT.

SOME OF THE BEST FEEDBACK IN MY LIFE WAS WHEN PEOPLE STOP ME ON THE STREET.

>> THERE'S A LOT OF PUBLIC FIGURES, PEOPLE SAYING THINGS LIKE I DON'T WANT TO BE A ROLE MODEL.

IS IT THE RECOGNITION THAT PEOPLE ARE LOOKING AT YOU NOW, DOES THAT CHANGE ANYTHING?

>> THAT IS PART OF THE REASON I DON'T SEARCH MY NAME ON TWITTER ANYMORE IS BECAUSE WHEN BAD THINGS HURT YOUR FEELINGS.

THAT IS JUST A FACT.

YOU READ SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR WORK AND YOUR APPEARANCE AND IT CAN HURT.

EVEN GOOD THINGS CAN CAUSE YOU TO GET STUCK.

PART OF THE RESPONSIBILITY AS AN ARTIST IS TO ARTICULATE TRUE EMOTION, TRUE FEELINGS.

WE SEE THIS A LOT.

THE DOWNSIDE OF THAT IS PEOPLE HAVING THE HERO COMPLEX.

I WILL CARRY ALL THESE PEOPLE ON MY BACK.

THEN YOU STOP BEING A HUMAN BEING.

IT'S EASY TO BE A HERO AND YOU SHOULD SKU HIDE THE SHADES OF YOURSELF BETTER.

I DON'T WANT TO GET IN TROUBLE FOR THIS, BUT THE EXAMPLE THAT ALWAYS COMES TO MIND.

I HAVE FELT THIS WAY SINCE I WAS A KID.

MARTIN LUTHER KING IS THIS INCREDIBLE MAN WHO MAY BE AS GUILTY OF A FEW INDISCRETIONS.

TO ME THE INDISCRETIONS IS PART OF WHAT MAKES HIM GREAT.

HE MADE MISTAKES BUT WAS CAPABLE OF SOMETHING BEAUTIFUL AND AMAZING.

WHEN YOU HIDE THAT IT DEHUMANIZES.

MY FAVORITE ARTISTS ARE ONES THAT SAY, I WILL SHOW YOU THE BAD SIDE.

NOT TO CELEBRATE IT JUST TO TELL YOU WHAT HAPPENED.

TO SHOW THAT MAKES INTERESTING ARE BUT ALSO MAKES AN INTERESTING PERSON.

>> THERE IS A LOT OF HOSTILITY DIRECTED AT SOME OF THE GROUPS YOU BELONG TO.

>> IT IS SCARY.

>> HOSTILITY AND RESENTMENT DIRECTED AT THE PUBLIC EXPRESSIONS OF DARKNESS AND QUEERNESS.

I JUST WONDER IF THE POLITICAL ENVIRONMENT AFFECTED WHAT YOU TALK ABOUT.

>> I AM NOT GAY BECAUSE I LIKE TO HOLD HANDS WITH A MAN AND WE WEAR WHITE ROBES AND HOLD HANDS AND GO TO CHURCH.

THAT IS NOT THE PART THAT MAKES ME GAY.

I AM GAY BECAUSE OF THE STUFF I TALK ABOUT IN THE SPECIAL.

I DO NOT WANT TO PRETEND TO BE SOMETHING ELSE.

I THINK THAT IS REALLY IMPORTANT NOBODY IS SAFE.

I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT.

I THOUGHT THAT WAS WRITTEN IN A STONE TABLET.

THEY ARE COMING FOR EVERYTHING.

JUST TO STAND FIRM IN WHO YOU ARE.

TO ME IDENTITY POLITICS OFTEN SHOW ONE SIDE OF THE IDENTITY.

>> IS THIS ANOTHER WAY OF SAYING THAT GAY PEOPLE ARE NORMAL.

>> I FOUND THE COMMON IT IS EASY TO SAY.

EVERYBODY HOLD SOMETHING REALLY CLOSE.

THEY DON'T WANT TO SHARE WITH ANYBODY THEY WILL MAKE THEM UNLOVABLE.

I AM SHARING MY CONFLICTING EMOTIONS ABOUT MY SEXUALITY.

SO TALKING TO MY FRIENDS I'M SHOCKED HOW MUCH OVERLAP THERE IS JUST ON A HUMAN LEVEL.

>> BEFORE YOU GO.

NATHANIEL WAS ABOUT THE FEAR OF BEING SEEN.

DON'T BE GAY IS ABOUT --I WOULD SAY IT IS ABOUT THE JOY OF STANDING IN YOUR TRUTH.

THE JOY OF KIND OF TAKING OFF THE MASK.

HOW DO YOU FEEL NOW THAT YOU WERE ABLE TO -- THAT YOU CHOSE TO TAKE OFF THE MASK.

HOW ARE YOU?

>> GOOD.

GOOD.

IT WAS THE BEST DECISION OF MY LIFE.

THAT ACTUALLY IS PROBABLY WHAT LOWERED THE CHOLESTEROL.

THAT PROBABLY IS HEART OF WHAT DID IT.

NOW IT'S A WHOLE NEW SET OF PROBLEMS I'M DEALING WITH.

I HAD A GRACE PERIOD ARE ALL OF MY FRIENDS --SO NOW IN THIS RELATIONSHIP.

YOU ARE AN ADULT.

YOU HAVE RESPONSIBILITY.

YOU HAVE A PERSON THAT YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR.

NOW I AM HIT WITH REALLY THE REAL TEST.

I FEEL SO MUCH BETTER ABOUT JUST BEING HONEST ABOUT WHO I AM.

IT ACTUALLY CHANGED MY LIFE.

>> I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE WHAT YOU DO NEXT.

>> I'M SO GLAD YOU TOOK THE TIME TO TALK TO ME.

IT'S REALLY GOOD.

YOU'VE GOT TO GET OUT OF DC.

>> WE WILL FIGURE THAT OUT.

>> THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR TALKING TO ME TODAY.

> >> THAT IS IT FOR OUR PROGRAM TONIGHT.

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ORG/TRAN02 THANK YOU FOR WATCHING AND GOODBYE FROM LONDON.