>> NOW, A DIRE WARNING FROM HISTORY.

NEVER HAS OUR FUTURE BEEN MORE UNPREDICTABLE.

NEVER HAVE WE DEPENDED SO MUCH ON POLITICAL FORCES THAT CANNOT BE TRUSTED TO FOLLOW THE RULES OF COMMON SENSE.

FORCES THAT LOOK LIKE SHEER INSANITY IF JUDGED BY THE STANDARDS OF OTHER CENTURIES.

>> THE STRIKING WORDS OF HANNAH ARENDT, ONE OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL POLITICAL THINKERS OF THE 20th CENTURY, AFTER BEING FORCED TO FLEE HER NATIVE GERMANY DURING THE NAZI PERSECUTION OF , SHE FOUND REFUGE IN THE UNITED STATES, WRITING ABOUT THE DANGERS OF AUTHORITARIANISM.

SHE COINED THE PHRASE BANALITY OF EVIL, COVERING THE TRIAL OF ADULT EICHMANN, THE ARCHITECT OF THE HOLOCAUST.

JEFF DEVER IS AN EMMY AWARD- WINNING FILMMAKER AND CODIRECTOR OF THE NEW DOCUMENTARY, HANNAH ARENDT, FACING TYRANNY, AND HE JOINS MICHELLE MARTIN TO TALK ABOUT HIS FILM.

>> X, CHRISTIANE.

IN SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US.

>> OH, IT'S A REAL PLEASURE.

THANK YOU FOR HAVING ME, MICHELLE.

>> PHILOSOPHY MAJORS MIGHT KNOW ABOUT HANNAH ARENDT, MAYBE PEOPLE WHO STUDIED THE RISE OF NAZI GERMANY.

SHE'S JUST A FASCINATING PERSONAL STORY WHICH PEOPLE MAY KNOW FRAGMENTS OF, BUT MIGHT NOT HAVE, YOU KNOW, KNOW THE WHOLE STORY.

SO GIVE US, JUST GIVE US THE BASICS.

GIVE US THE BASICS OF HER LIFE, YEAH.

>> ABSOLUTELY.

HANNAH ARENDT, BORN IN HANOVER, GERMANY, IN 1906, A BRILLIANT, PRECOCIOUS, RAMBUNCTIOUS, FUNNY KID WHO STARTS STUDYING PHILOSOPHY, STARTS READING KANT, NIETZSCHE, AT THE AGE OF 12 AND 14 YEARS OLD.

SO SHE'S THIS BRILLIANT KID.

AND SHE GOES TO THE UNIVERSITY TO STUDY PHILOSOPHY.

1924, RIGHT AFTER WORLD WAR I, WHEN THINGS ARE REALLY CHANGING IN GERMANY, YOU KNOW?

AFTER WORLD WAR I, GERMANY HAD LOST THE WAR.

THE ALLIES HAD MADE GERMANY PAY REPARATIONS.

THEY DEMILITARIZED GERMANY, AND PEOPLE WERE REALLY ANGRY.

THERE WAS UNEMPLOYMENT, THERE WAS HYPERINFLATION.

BUT SHE BASICALLY WHAT HAPPENS IS, SHE GOES TO BERLIN IN 1929 AFTER SHE GETS HER DOCTORATE DEGREES, AND SHE SEES THINGS CHANGING IN GERMANY .

SHE GETS MARRIED TO A NICE JEWISH GUY IN SEPTEMBER OF 1929.

OCTOBER '29, THE STOCK MARKET CRASHES, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN, EVERYTHING GOES HAYWIRE, NOT JUST IN GERMANY, BUT ALL OVER THE WORLD.

PEOPLE ARE UNEMPLOYED, PEOPLE ARE ANGRY.

WHAT'S HAPPENING?

AND ADULT HITLER, WHO HAD PUBLISHED MEIN KAMPF IN 1925 WHEN SHE WAS IN UNIVERSITY, AND THAT WAS KIND OF THIS BLUEPRINT FOR YOU KNOW, WHAT HE DOES IN WORLD WAR II AND THE HOLOCAUST, AND HE'D STARTS BLAMING THE JEWS AND IMMIGRANTS WHO ARE COMING IN TO GERMANY LOOKING FOR JOBS.

AND SHE SEES THIS.

SHE'S EXPERIENCING IT.

AND SHE JOINS THE RESISTANCE AFTER THE REICHSTAG FIRE IN 1933 TO FIGHT HITLER.

TO RESIST, AFTER HE DECLARES MARTIAL LAW.

SHE GETS ARRESTED.

SHE ESCAPES TO FRANCE.

SHE HELPS JEWISH KIDS ESCAPE FROM GERMANY TO GO TO WHAT WAS THEN PALESTINE.

AND AFTER GERMANY ATTACKS FRANCE, SHE GETS IN TURN, LIKE OTHER GERMANS, AND ESCAPES AGAIN AFTER THE CAMP FALLS, AFTER FRANCE FALLS TO GERMANY.

AND SHE AND HER, ACTUALLY, AT THE TIME, SECOND HUSBAND, ESCAPE TO THE UNITED STATES IN 1941.

AND IN '43, AFTER SHE LEARNS ABOUT AUSCHWITZ AND THE HOLOCAUST, SHE STARTS ASKING THE QUESTION, WHAT WAS GOING ON?

WHAT HAPPENED?

HOW DID THIS HAPPEN?

AND SHE BEGINS TO WRITE THIS BOOK, ORIGINS OF TOTALITARIANISM.

>> FINALLY, WE GET TO '43, AND YOU START TO SEE A PATTERN.

SHE STARTS TO SEE A BOOK.

>> PROPAGANDA PROVIDED THE FOUNDATION FOR BUILDING TOTALITARIAN POWER.

THE NAZI TRANSLATED THE PROPAGANDA LIKE A MOVEMENT INTO A FUNCTIONING REALITY.

TOTALITARIANISM REPLACES ALL FIRST-RATE TALENTS WITH CRACKPOTS AND FOOLS WHOSE LACK OF INTELLIGENCE AND CREATIVITY INSTILLS THE BEST GUARANTEE OF THEIR LOYALTY, AND NEEDED A -- TO DEFEND ITSELF.

>> I JUST FIND HER SO FASCINATING, BECAUSE, FIRST OF ALL, TO BE A WOMAN IN PHILOSOPHY AT A TIME WHEN, A WOMAN OF LETTERS AT A TIME WHEN THAT WAS DIFFICULT TO BE.

AND THEN TO HAVE BEEN ARRESTED TWICE, TO HAVE BEEN INTERNED TWICE, AND THEN TO ESCAPE BOTH TIMES TO SOMEHOW KIND OF GET OUT, TO HAVE SURVIVED AS A GERMAN JEWS, TO HAVE SURVIVED THE HOLOCAUST, TO HAVE FIGURED OUT HOW TO SURVIVE IN THAT ERA, HER EXPERIENCES WERE INCREDIBLE.

BUT, BUT TELL ME MORE ABOUT HOW SHE WAS SORT OF, HER WORK WAS VIEWED AT THE TIME.

>> SO IN 1951, SHE PUBLISHES ORIGINS OF TOTALITARIANISM, HER VERY FIRST BOOK, ABOUT, HOW DID HITLER AND STALIN COME TO BE?

HOW DID, NOT JUST THOUSANDS, BUT MILLIONS OF PEOPLE SUBSCRIBE TO A CULT LEADER, YOU KNOW?

EDUCATED PEOPLE SUBSCRIBE TO THE LIES OF HITLER.

AND IT'S VERY WELL RECEIVED.

AND THERE WAS SOME MIXED REVIEWS IN IT, BUT, YOU KNOW, THE THING IS IS IT WAS A GROUNDBREAKING BOOK, BECAUSE, REALLY, IT SETS THE MOLD FOR WHAT HAPPENS LATER.

IT'S NOT JUST ABOUT ADOLF HITLER.

IT'S ABOUT WHAT HAPPENS WHEN PEOPLE, GOOD PEOPLE, EDUCATED PEOPLE, START SUBSCRIBING TO THE LIES OF A CULT LEADER.

AND ONE OF THE THINGS SHE WRITES ABOUT IN THAT BOOK IS ABOUT LONELINESS.

YOU KNOW, VIVEK MURTHY, THE SURGEON GENERAL IN 2023, PUT OUT A REPORT ABOUT LONELINESS.

AND HE SAID IT WAS AN EPIDEMIC OF LONELINESS, AND IT WAS A HEALTH ISSUE, RIGHT?

WELL, SHE OBSERVES THAT AFTER WORLD WAR I, PEOPLE IN GERMANY FELT DISCONNECTED TO THEIR, TO THEIR LIVES, DISCONNECTED FROM SOCIETY.

YOU KNOW, PEOPLE HAD LOST THEIR JOBS, PEOPLE FELT THEY WEREN'T BEING TREATED WELL.

THEY RETREATED, IN ESSENCE, AND THEY WERE LOOKING FOR MEANING IN THEIR LIVES.

AND ALONG COMES ADOLF HITLER, WHO SAYS , I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU YOUR JOBS BACK AGAIN, YOU KNOW?

I'M GOING TO MAKE GERMANY GREAT AGAIN.

I'M GOING TO REBUILD THE MILITARY AGAIN.

AND HE GETS THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE TO BELIEVE HIM, EVEN THOUGH MANY PEOPLE KNOW THE GUY'S LION.

BUT THEY FEEL, YOU KNOW WHAT?

HE'S GOING TO HELP GERMANY AGAIN.

AND, AND SHE WRITES ABOUT THAT AS A KEY INGREDIENT THAT LED PEOPLE TO SUBSCRIBE TO A TOTALITARIAN GOVERNMENT.

LONELINESS.

SO AFTER THE BOOK IS PUBLISHED, SHE BEGINS A TEACHING CAREER.

SHE ALSO TEACHES AT THE NEW SCHOOL IN NEW YORK.

AND SHE REALLY STARTS TO OBSERVE THE STUDENT PROTEST MOVEMENT IN THE '60S AND '70S.

BUT I, YOU KNOW, I'M JUMPING AHEAD >> LET ME, LET ME GO BACK.

JUST FOR PEOPLE, AGAIN, WHO HAVE NOT FOLLOWED THIS OR DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS AS CLOSELY, WHO IS ADOLF EICHMANN, AND HOW WAS IT THAT HE, THAT HE WENT TO TRIAL IN JERUSALEM IN THE '60S?

WHAT HAPPENED THERE?

>> RIGHT, SO I DON'T LIKE HIM AND WAS IN CHARGE OF TRANSPORTING PEOPLE, HE WAS IN CHARGE OF TRANSPORTATION DURING THE THIRD REICH, TRANSPORTING PEOPLE, TRANSECTS, OTHERS, FROM TO CONCENTRATION CAMPS, TO EXTERMINATION CAMPS.

HE WAS, AS ONE OF OUR ADVISERS SAID, ONE OF HITLER'S CHIEF LOGICIANS, RIGHT?

HE WOULD FIGURE OUT, YOU KNOW, THE TIMETABLES AND TRAINS AND ALL OF THAT TO GET PEOPLE FROM HERE TO THERE, AND THEY WOULD BE KILLED, BASICALLY, RIGHT?

SO, LIKE MANY OTHER NAZIS, HE ESCAPES.

HE GOES TO ARGENTINA, WHICH SEEMED TO BE A HAVEN FOR NAZIS.

IN 1960, THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT CAPTURES HIM, KIDNAPS HIM, AND BRINGS HIM BACK TO JERUSALEM TO STAND TRIAL.

AND SO SHE GOES AND SHE EXPECTS TO SEE THIS RAVING LUNATIC, THIS ANTI-SEMITE, YOU KNOW, WHO'S GOING TO BE, YOU KNOW, OFF HIS ROCKER.

AND INSTEAD, SHE SEES THIS BESPECTACLED GUY IN A SUIT, HE'S CONSTANTLY BLOWING HIS NOSE, HE'S LIKE ANY OTHER BUREAUCRAT YOU MIGHT SEE, AND HE'S SPEAKING IN CLICHES.

SHE SAYS HE'S KIND OF SPEAKING IN NAZI SPEAK.

HE, WHEN HIS QUESTION ABOUT HIS ROLE IN THE HOLOCAUST, HIS ROLE OF KILLING MILLIONS OF PEOPLE, HE SAID HE DIDN'T KILL ANYBODY.

ALL HE DID WAS HE WAS IN CHARGE OF TRANSPORTING PEOPLE FROM HERE TO THERE.

AND WHAT SHE COMES, SHE COINS THIS PHRASE, BANALITY OF EVIL, BASICALLY.

SHE WRITES A REPORT IN THE NEW YORKER CALLED ADULT EICHMANN ON TRIAL, THE BANALITY OF EVIL.

AND WHAT DOES THAT MEAN, THE BANALITY OF EVIL?

SHE'S NOT CALLING EVIL BUT NOW, BUT SHE'S BASICALLY SAYING THAT THE WORK THAT HE DID OF TRANSPORTING PEOPLE, THE COMMONPLACE WORK THAT HE DID WAS EVIL, BECAUSE SHE BASICALLY SAID BANALITY OF EVIL MEANT HE FAILED TO THINK ABOUT WHAT HE WAS DOING.

HE FAILED TO SEE THE PEOPLE HE WAS ACTUALLY SENDING TO THEIR DEATHS, AND INSTEAD, HE SAID, I WAS JUST DOING A GOOD JOB.

AND WHAT SHE WRITES ABOUT HIS HE WOULD'VE KILLED HIS OWN FATHER IF HE WAS ASKED TO DO THAT, BECAUSE HE WAS FOLLOWING THE LAWS.

HE DIDN'T THINK ABOUT WHAT HE WAS DOING.

AND WHAT, WHAT LEON BOUGHT STEIN THEN SAYS IS THAT THERE WERE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE LIKE EICHMANN.

THERE WERE THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, MIDDLE-CLASS PEOPLE, EDUCATED PEOPLE, WHO ARE PARTICIPATING IN THE SYSTEM OF KILLING MILLIONS OF PEOPLE.

>> THIS PIECE WAS EXTREMELY CONTROVERSIAL.

SHE WAS HEAVILY CRITICIZED FOR IT, INCLUDING BY OTHER JEWISH THINKERS .

WHICH, CAN YOU EXPLAIN THAT?

>> YEAH.

SO BASICALLY WHAT SHE SAYS, WHAT, SHE'S COVERING THIS TRIAL, AND IN ADDITION TO PUTTING EICHMANN ON TRIAL AND QUESTIONING HIM, THEY PUT ON JEWISH SURVIVORS OF THE HOLOCAUST AND QUESTIONED THEM ABOUT EICHMANN.

AND WHAT THEY FIND IS THAT EICHMANN COULD GO INTO A CITY AND HE WOULD IDENTIFY THE JEWISH LEADERS OF A .

AND HE WOULD IDENTIFY THEM, AND THEY WOULD BECOME A JEWISH COUNCIL THAT WOULD COOPERATE WITH EICHMANN, OKAY?

AND EVEN DURING THE TRIAL OF ONE MAN WHO'S TESTIFYING ABOUT THAT, SOMEBODY IN THE AUDIENCE STANDS UP AND SAYS, YOU PEOPLE, YOU, YOU, YOU DID THIS TO SAVE YOUR OWN SKIN!

SO SHE WRITES ABOUT THIS.

AND SO WHAT PEOPLE ARE OUTRAGED ABOUT IS THAT SHE, I MEAN, SHE WAS, LIKE, TOTALLY CRUCIFIED BY THE JEWISH INTELLIGENTSIA, WHO BASICALLY HAD, HELD A TRIAL IN A HOTEL.

SHE WASN'T ATTENDING, BUT THERE WERE A LOT OF PEOPLE THERE.

WELL, THEY WERE OUTRAGED ABOUT, THEY ACCUSED HER OF SAYING THAT JEWS WERE THE ONES WHO WERE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE HOLOCAUST, OF KILLING JEWS, AND SHE EXONERATED EICHMANN FOR BEING BUT NOW.

AND SO SHE, BASICALLY YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THIS WAS BEING WRITTEN IN 1963, OKAY?

SO PEOPLE HADN'T FOCUSED ON THE HOLOCAUST.

THEY DIDN'T EVEN WANT TO DEAL WITH THE HOLOCAUST.

I DON'T EVEN KNOW IF THAT NAME WAS COINED AT THAT, AT THAT TIME.

AND ESSENTIALLY THE TRIAL WAS TELEVISED.

SO PEOPLE SAW THIS, THE VERY FIRST TIME, AND PEOPLE WEREN'T READY TO HEAR ABOUT THE BANALITY OF EVIL.

AND THEY WEREN'T READY TO HAVE, HAVE THEIR, THEIR SENSE OF , THE JEWISH, THE VICTIMIZATION IN THE DEATHS OF MILLIONS OF JEWS, TO HAVE JEWS BEING LABELED AS COOPERATING WITH THE NAZIS.

AND WHAT SHE WRITES ABOUT IS THAT EVERYBODY WAS SUCKED INTO THIS SYSTEM OF TOTALITARIANISM.

THE VICTIMS, THE BYSTANDERS, THE PERPETRATORS, EVERYBODY WAS SUCKED IN.

>> THE, THE FILM DOES FOCUS VERY MUCH ON HANNAH ARENDT, AND IT TELLS HER STORY.

BUT IT IS SET AGAINST THE BACKDROP OF THE CURRENT MOMENT, AND, AND WHAT SHE DID LIVE LONG ENOUGH TO SEE, YOU KNOW, THE RISE OF McCARTHYISM IN THE UNITED STATES, AND SHE SAW THE KIND OF BACKLASH AGAINST SOCIAL JUSTICE MOVEMENTS IN THE UNITED STATES.

WHAT DO YOU WANT TO TELL US ABOUT THAT?

>> WELL, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, NO ONE, NO ONE HAD COVERED, THAT I HAD SEEN, HER TIME AND EXPERIENCES IN THE UNITED STATES.

SO IN 1951, WHEN McCARTHYISM TAKES SHAPE, 1950 TO 1954, SHE IS HORRIFIED BY THAT, BECAUSE WHAT SHE WRITES AND WHAT SHE SEES IS THAT PEOPLE WERE TURNING AGAINST THEIR FELLOW AMERICANS, AND TURNING THEM IN.

THERE WAS NO DUE PROCESS.

THEY WERE BEING CALLED UP, AND THEY WERE BEING, YOU KNOW, CANCELED, OR THEY WERE BEING SHUT OUT OF JOBS.

>> ARENDT WAS ACTUALLY TEACHING AT BERKELEY, AND SHE TALKS ABOUT HOW THE ACADEMIC ENVIRONMENT ON CAMPUS WAS CHILLED, HOW PEOPLE WERE AFRAID TO LAUGH IN PUBLIC OR TO MAKE JOKES OR JUST TO SPEAK FREELY.

>> CAN YOU SEE HOW FAR THE DISINTEGRATION HAS GONE, AND WITH WHAT BREATHTAKING SPEEDED HAS OCCURRED?

AND UP TO NOW, HARDLY ANY RESISTANCE.

THE WHOLE ENTERTAINMENT INDUSTRY, AND, TO A LESSER EXTENT, THE UNIVERSITIES HAVE BEEN DRAGGED INTO IT.

IT ALL FUNCTIONS WITHOUT ANY FORCE, WITHOUT ANY TERROR.

THEY'RE INTRODUCING POLICE METHODS.

THEY NAME NAMES, AND, IN THIS WAY, THE INFORMANT SYSTEM IS BEING INTEGRATED INTO SOCIETY.

>> ONE ELEMENT THAT SHE SEES UNFOLDING IS THE THREAT TO DE- NATURALIZE NATURALIZED CITIZENS.

>> AND IN THE 1960S UNFOLDS, AND SHE SEES THE STUDENT PROTEST MOVEMENT AGAINST THE VIETNAM WAR.

SO SHE REALLY SUPPORTS THAT, BECAUSE SHE WRITES ABOUT THAT PEOPLE HAVE THE POWER TO CHANGE IF THEY COME TOGETHER.

SO SHE'S A BIG BELIEVER IN THE CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE MOVEMENT.

BUT THEN WHEN THE PENTAGON PAPERS COME OUT IN JUNE OF 1971 , AND SHE SEES THAT THE GOVERNMENT HAD BEEN LYING ABOUT THE VIETNAM WAR FOR DECADES, NOT JUST THROUGH THE NIXON ADMINISTRATION, AND SHE COMES TO THE CONCLUSION THEY LIED ABOUT THE VIETNAM WAR JUST TO SAVE FACE.

BASICALLY, THEY KNEW THEY WERE LOSING, BUT THEY WANTED TO PROJECT AN IMAGE THAT THEY WERE WINNING.

AND THEN WHEN NIXON AND WATERGATE TAKES HOLD, ONE YEAR LATER IN, IN JUNE OF 1972, SHE BECOMES VERY SCARED, BECAUSE SHE SAYS THAT THE FOUNDING FATHERS NEVER BELIEVED THAT TYRANNY COULD ARISE OUT OF THE EXECUTIVE OFFICE.

BECAUSE THEY CREATED A SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT, THREE EQUAL BRANCHES OF GOVERNMENT.

SHE SAYS, AFTER NIXON, SHE REALIZES THAT TYRANNY, IF IT'S GOING TO ARISE, IT'S GOING TO ARISE FROM THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH, OF THE POWERS OF THE EXECUTIVE WANTS TO TAKE.

SO WHEN YOU SEE THE FILM, YOU COME AWAY WITH A SENSE OF NOT JUST ABOUT HISTORY, BUT ABOUT OUR PRESENT MOMENT, BECAUSE IT BRINGS UP A LOT OF ISSUES OF WHAT WE'RE DEALING WITH TODAY.

I DON'T DEVIATE FROM HISTORY.

I STAY WITHIN HISTORY.

BUT WHAT I WANT PEOPLE TO SEE IS THAT WE, AS A PEOPLE, HAVE TO SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING IN FRONT OF US, AND WE HAVE TO BE REAL ABOUT IT.

>> OF COURSE, YOU KNOW THAT THERE ARE, IT'S A DELICATE LINE.

IT'S A DELICATE LINE TO COMPARE THE NAZI ERA TO ANYTHING, RIGHT?

AND THERE ARE THOSE WHO ARE DEEPLY OFFENDED BY THE IDEA OF COMPARING THAT ERA TO ANY OTHER ERA.

AND I JUST WONDER IF YOU HAVE, HOW YOU SORT OF GRAPPLE WITH THAT.

BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY, HANNAH ARENDT, HANNAH ARENDT'S POINT WAS THAT HUMAN BEINGS ARE HUMAN BEINGS, AND THAT WE'LL BEHAVE AS HUMANS DO, GIVEN THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCES.

AND HER POINT WAS A POINT THAT IS, IS, IS FREE OF TIME.

>> ALL THE QUOTES FROM HANNAH ARENDT, FROM HER BOOKS OR LETTERS, HER ESSAYS, ARE BASED ON THE EXPERIENCE THAT SHE HAD AT THE TIME, AND THAT SHE WITNESSED, OR SHE WROTE ABOUT.

THE FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT A LOT OF THE THINGS SHE SAYS HAS RELEVANCE TO WHAT IS HAPPENING TODAY.

SO WHEN WE SEE THE FILM, OR WE HEAR WHAT SHE SAYS, IT'S NOT THAT WE'RE TRYING TO SAY, OH, WELL, THE SAME THING THAT HAPPENED IN NAZI GERMANY IS HAPPENING HERE.

NO.

WE'RE NOT SAYING THAT.

BUT WE'RE SAYING THAT WE NEED TO BE AWARE OF WHEN THINGS, NORMS WE TAKE FOR GRANTED CHANGE, AND WE NEED TO SEE IT FOR WHAT IT IS.

WE CAN'T HIDE, HER VERY LAST SPEECH, SHE GIVES HER VERY LAST SPEECH DURING AMERICA'S BICENTENNIAL.

AMERICA'S BICENTENNIAL STARTS APRIL 1975, AND IT GOES TO JULY 4th, 1976.

AND SHE GIVES A TALK AT A BOSTON FORUM IN APRIL OF 1975.

IT'S CALLED HOME TO ROOST.

AND BASICALLY WHAT SHE SAYS IS THAT , YOU KNOW, SHE TALKS ABOUT McCARTHYISM, SHE TALKS ABOUT NOTHINGISM, SHE TALKS ABOUT WATERGATE, THE PENTAGON PAPERS, VIETNAM WAR, AND SHE BASICALLY SAYS THAT WHEN THE FACTS COME HOME TO ROOST, WHEN YOU ABSOLUTELY CAN SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING IN FRONT OF YOU, DON'T, DON'T ESCAPE INTO SOME THEORIES OR RATIONALIZATION OF WHAT'S HAPPENING.

BUT YOU HAVE TO TO GET FOR WHAT IT IS, AND YOU HAD TO ACCEPT IT, AS HORRIBLE AS IT MAY BE, AND THEN YOU HAVE TO ACT.

YOU SHOULD BECOME POLITICALLY ACTIVE TO SAVE THE REPUBLIC.

AND THAT'S WHAT SHE'S TALKING ABOUT.

IN 1975.

SO MY POINT IS, WHEN PEOPLE SEE THE FILM, OF COURSE THEIR TAKE AWAY IS ABOUT TODAY BUT THE THE, THE FILM ITSELF NEVER DEVIATES FROM HISTORY.

>> JEFF BEAVER, THANK SO MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US.

>> OH, MICHELLE, THANK YOU SO, SO MUCH.