President Trump walks into his# State of the Union facing damning# headlines and sagging poll numbers# as voters watched the turbulence# at home and abroad.

Tonight, with# midterms looming, can the president# use next week's primetime address to# reset the story of his second term.

Next.

Good evening and welcome to# Washington Week.

I'm Vivian Salama in tonight for Jeffrey Goldberg.

President# Trump is days away from delivering his State of the Union address and# his speech comes at a moment of deep division, challenges to core# elements of his agenda, friction with allies abroad, and questions# about the balance of power here in Washington.

Joining me tonight# to discuss this and more, Peter Baker is chief White House# correspondent for The New York Times.

Eugene Daniels is a senior Washington# correspondent and a co-anchor of The Weekend at MS Now.

Lisa Desjardin# is the congressional correspondent for PBS NewsHour and Susan Glasser# is staff writer at The New Yorker.

Thank you all so much for joining# me.

So the Supreme Court dealt a major blow to President Trump's# economic agenda today, striking down the broad global tariffs that# he imposed through this authority that's known as the International# Emergency Economic Powers Act.

This, um, the Supreme Court held# that the president lacked authority to leave a sweeping tariffs without# explicit congressional approval.

Peter, the president came out to the# podium today and tried to respond to the Supreme Court's Supreme# Court's decision.

How did that play out?

He took a graciously, of# course, he attacked the Supreme Court justices and said that they were# unpatriotic, that they should be ashamed of themselves, their their# parents should be ashamed.

Their families should be ashamed of# them, that they had been influenced by foreign interests.

Uh, it's a kind of# reaction we shouldn't be surprised by, but not the kind of reaction# we normally see from a president toward a Supreme Court ruling,# and it's just, he sees the Supreme Court as a political body.

He# doesn't see it as a judicial body in that sense.

They're supposed to rule# for me because I appointed them.

He gives that impression about the# three justices he put on there, two of whom went against him today,# Amy Coney Barrett and Neil Gorsuch.

And he's then, you know, made# clear he wasn't going to basically bow down just because they have# made this ruling.

He by the end of the day, he'd already put out a new# order trying to reimpose tariffs under a different legal# authority.

So he said today that because he couldn't use that legal# authority, he would impose 10% tariffs on countries around the# world using different authorities.

He actually took to Truth Social# around the same time that he was at the podium, you know, a post# through his account, and he said this was an important case to me,# more as a symbol of economic and national security than anything# else.

The good news is that there are methods, practices, statutes,# and other authorities as recognized by the entire court and Congress# and even, uh, and our even stronger than the AEPA tariffs available# to me as President of the United States.

So Susan, obviously he's# looking for workarounds here.

Yeah, I mean, the Supreme Court was very# clear.

That's not how our system is supposed to work, and I think# that's really powerful.

If you read these decisions, you know what's# supposed to happen in a situation like this.

The Supreme Court told# the President of the United States very clearly, if you want these# tariffs, get Congress to pass a law to uh issue these tariffs.

Donald# Trump has ruled out doing that and of course he doesn't actually# have the votes even though it's a Republican-controlled House and# a Republican-controlled Senate.

He's trying to bypass the way our# system is supposed to work, and I think it's really notable here that# one of the justices who concurred in the majority opinion, Justice# Gorsuch, as you mentioned, he's a Trump appointee.

He's a real# conservative.

He's ruled against, you know, many, many, many beloved# issues of, of liberals, and yet what he wrote in his concurrence# is something that you're seeing passed around Washington today a# lot.

He said essentially, if you bypass Congress and the system is# not supposed to work so that one man has this much power.

I# mean, talk to me also about um the way that the president has used# this as basically a central tool in dealing with countries' allies# and adversaries alike, you know, imposing tariffs on India because# it was buying Russian oil and for other reasons as well, imposing# it on European allies because he wanted to compete on steel and# aluminum.

I mean, it's sweeping.

How are you, what are you hearing from# sources abroad about how the Supreme Court ruling has been received,# but also how President Trump has conducted himself through his# economic agenda.

That's exactly right.

This is a pillar of how he was using# his aggrandizement and his aggressive view of the powers, the sweeping# powers of the American presidency to rewrite international diplomacy,# which for Donald Trump is very much about economics anyways, you# know, Europeans are already so terrified about the unraveling# of our decades-long alliance.

You know, that there was real questions# as recently as last weekend the Munich Security conf er ence you# know, is this an alliance where the United States has gone so far# off the rails.

Are there checks and balances left in the system,# and I think there'll be a little bit of relief that, OK, it seems# that the Supreme Court is still at a certain point willing to# step in and check and balance, but the fact that Trump immediately# then is trying to circumvent the Supreme Court's ruling.

And let's# be clear, that's what he's doing.

He is trying to circumvent the# court's ruling, and that's going to unleash a whole new wave of# uncertainty in the economic markets.

It creates turmoil, by the way, that# is affecting not just the United States but other countries around# the world that we're connected to.

So again, it's a sign of Donald# Trump's chaos affecting not just Americans but people all over the# world.

It's not really just a question of circumventing the court's ruling,# right?

Lisa, like, we've, we've seen a, a, a significant, significant# reasons to be concerned about the erosion of the independence of# the judiciary.

I mean, just this week we saw a huge banner with# President Trump's picture on it.

Go up outside the Department of# Justice, which is pretty astonishing.

So today, you know, we were just# saying that President Trump called Justices Neil Neil Gorsuch and Amy# Coney Barrett, two of the justices he nominated in his first term, an# embarrassment to their families.

He said they were making a big# mistake.

You cover the hill, you know, how are these attacks being received,# particularly among Republicans who do believe in essence of the# independence of the judiciary and other branches.

Somewhere in Fitbit# head qua r ter s they are noticing heart rates going up among# Republicans wearing those watches.

I think that Republicans right now# are concerned about their ability not just to hold the House but# really to have even a close margin in the House because things are# not going the way they need Trump to be charming Trump, not angry# Trump.

We'll get into that and State of the Union, but when it comes# to tariffs, Susan mentioned that our allies are terrified about# what this means the unraveling of like the European alliances.

I# think a lot of Republicans on the Hill are terrified of a potential# tariff vote if the president decides he does want to go to the Hill# with this, and what that would mean for the unraveling of the very tricky# maga moderate alliance of voters that they all need and they don't# want to take those tariff votes.

The House and Senate have both# passed bills opposing tariffs in the past, but it hasn't led to serious# consequences.

But are they ready for that kind of a fight with Trump,# especially for an issue that's so near and dear to his heart.

No,# it would be a very difficult vote for most Republican s but I'll tell# you who would love it, Democrats.

They are ready for this.

Let's talk# about tariffs as much as we want to talk about how they say he's# failing on inflation and failing on prices.

They think this is a# good example of an economic agenda failing, and Republicans have to# figure out their message.

OK, so Eugene, in 2025, economic growth# slowed compared to the year before.

And economists say it was largely# driven by President Trump's tariffs, as well as the government shutdown# that we saw in the fall.

Many economists believe the tariffs are# hurting the country.

Many people in states that backed Trump# overwhelmingly are being are feeling the pain of these tariffs.

So why# is President Trump so dedicated to still, or why is he so committed# to this policy.

He has been obsessed with the idea of terrorists forever,# right?

When he was a businessman in New York City.

That was something# he talked about a lot, interestingly enough, it is why he believes like# Japan is such a powerhouse because of terrorists.

He sees it as this# kind of ability and tool, and he's used it, as Susan was talking# about, as a cudgel against both your enemies and your allies, and that's# why when people are, when I talked to Republicans, I'm sure you have# too, who are like, oh, if the Supreme Court will just get rid of this,# these tariffs.

Everything will be fine.

Well, maybe we won't get a,# yeah, we can move on.

That is not what's going to happen.

It was never# what was going to happen.

Donald Trump truly believes that this is# a way to do, um, econ economics.

I mean you look at his kind of# economic plan.

He, this is kind of it, right?

Like there, there hasn't# been other bills that he's been trying to pass.

They passed the# one reconciliation bill.

They keep talking about maybe they're working# on something else, but there's no real movement on that.

They# would say tax cuts, right, exactly extending the tax cuts# they'd say right, so give more money to wealthy cor po ration s and# individuals and make everyday people pay more money.

I thought it was# very interesting on the politics today that you had JB Brisker,# the governor of Illinois, sending Donald Trump.

It was almost a# Trumpian-like gesture, right?

He sent him an invoice, he said, OK, I'd# like you to pay back the people of my state for all the money that# they had to pay extra for goods and services as a result last year# of your terrorists because the politics of this is on the Democrat# side, like when you look at how voters think about tariffs.

They don't# like tariffs.

It's not Republicans don't like tariffs, Democrats don't# like tariffs, Independents don't like the concept of terrorists because# they understand that the connection between their prices going up and# President Trump signing these, these executive orders.

But President# Trump always says short term pain, long term gain, you know,# that's kind of his mantra on the campaign trail, but you know,# voters don't think like that.

They have bills.

I mean, and, and on# that note, speaking of the economy, the issue is expected to feature# prominently when President Trump addresses the joint session in# Congress on T ue s da y Listen to how President Trump previewed his# speech earlier this week.

And watch the State of the Union.

We're going# to be talking about the economy.

We inherited a mess, and now we# have prices way down.

We have energy way down.

Gasoline is now# breaking $2 a gallon in many places, and it's been actually amazing.# So Peter, broadly speaking, what can we expect to hear from President# Trump for his 2nd State of the Union of his second term.

Yes, first# of all, a lot of things he just said there not true, just to be# clear, OK.

He inherited an economy that had been afflicted by high# inflation, but by the time he inherited it, inflation was at 3%.

It's# currently at 2.4%, 2.5%, something like that.

So it's it's relatively,# relatively where it was.

He inherited an economy that was actually# producing a lot of jobs.

In fact, it's actually gone down this year in# terms of jobs.

Last year there were only 1 80,000 jobs or something# like that for the entire year, a fraction of what had been produced# in the year before.

So people are feeling this anxiety, and# they're feeling anxiety because of the advent of AI, which is coming# along, and people think, is that going to take my job?

I don't know.# I'm feeling anxiety because prices haven't gone down.

They haven't# gone up as much, but they're not going back down overall, and you# saw his inability to stick to that disciplined message just this week,# right?

He, they, they send him to to Rome, Georgia to talk about# affordability.

He says, I want affordability as if it's all over# and everybody should just simply stop caring about it, right?

And# on the same day he's meeting with his board of Peace to talk about# Gaza.

He's talking about war with Iran.

Never mind that we have a# border of peace while we're talking about war, we can get into that He's talking about everything it# seems like for a lot of Americans other than their lives.

And Susie# Wiles, the chief of staff, has said we need him to focus more on# these issues of bread and butter, you know, kitchen table issues# for voters, but he just can't seem to do it.

He doesn't seem to be# interested in it, and he sees it as obviously a vulnerability and# the administration has been very intent on trying to kind of pin# this on the Biden administration, any kind of, you know, aching and# pain that the, that the voters feel.

President Trump's top economic# adviser Kevin Hassett in December actually addressed this question# of whether or not Trump at some point inherits the economic, the pain of the econ# of the economy, and here's what he said.

At what point does it# become the Trump economy?

Well, it's the Trump economy now.

Our policies# are changing people's lives, but when are we going to be able# to point to members and say that we fixed the problem, we filled# the hole that Biden dug, you know, that will depend on what thing.

So# for example, we're way past success on eggs, but there are other things# that are going to take longer.

So Susan, it is the Trump economy# on select issues.

I would say that if it's good, it's the Trump economy# and if it's bad, somebody else did it, which, to be fair, you know,# many, many leaders of both parties have had that view of how things# should work, and as you know, Americans tend to wildly overstate the role# of individual accents.

That's what's so remarkable actually about what# Trump did in his first year, which is that he took an economy that# was headed in one direction, and they had to um, you know, the# forecasters actually had to take down their estimates for American# growth last year as a direct result of Donald Trump's tariff policy# and the uncertainty he inject in the in the economy, his attacks on# immigration.

We could talk about that.

That also plays a role in the# strength of the American economy and then of course the fact that# he's going after our friends and neighbors especially in Canada.

Again we are# intertwined economically .. so these are very direct results# of a president, and you know, look for Donald Trump who's made bashing# his predecessor Joe Biden and Barack Obama.

Before that, you know,# probably the over the top signature of his presidency.

It's really got# to gall him that you now see some of these surveys coming out saying# that Americans are so dissatisfied with the direction of the country.# They believe definitely that Barack Obama, but even that Joe Biden,# you know, did a better job in the presidency for someone who is# literally vilified Joe Biden, who's hung a picture of an auto pen in# his new gallery of the presidents at the White House.

I really think# that this is a really embarrassing political moment for Donald Trump# to be going up to Capitol Hill for the State of the Union.

You# know, I think going back, I'm sure even at this table there have been# long debates about does a president affect the economy or not?

How# soon does that happen as kind of as you played right there, but to# Susan's point, this is a president direct effects, and you can add# to that long list that Susan had the firing and retiring of federal# workers, which is a huge part of how government, how this country# operates in terms of its economy.

And when you look at the surveys# in particular, like in our last poll, you see some key groups# really getting shaking their faith with him, especially white# non-college educated men.

In our poll right before the election last year,# they voted 70% for Donald Trump.

But in our latest poll they are# 50/50 on whether they even approve of him, and the situation is even worse# for women, college, and non-college, and Republicans see this, and he# said, you've got you've got to get back into people's lives.

I mean,# these are the issues he ran on, right?

The economy first and# foremost and also immigration and now he's having to go out there and# justify both his economic record and also some of his immigration# tactics as well.

I mean, Eugene, we talk about ICE raids in Minnesota,# which, you know, even Republicans have started to feel uneasy about the controversies over the Epstein# files.

You have threats to invade Greenland.

How much of, how much of# these issues are creating a fissure within Trump's inner circle, his# base, I, I mean, um, and, and how much is he, are we going to hear# about that?

in the State of the Union?

I not hear much about it in# the State of the Union.

He's going to not just say that the, save the# union is strong and the country is great, but that his base is# great.

The Republican Party is great.

He, that is how he has always# operated, trying to sell this, um, I am everything's fine, kind of# veneer, um, but I will say the fissures are not, it'd be one thing if the# officials were one thing, right?

If it was just the Epstein Files,# probably sold that back up.

But the Fissures are all those things# that you're talking about, right?

It is on immigration, it is on, it# is on Epstein.

It is on terrorists.

It is on, you know, him focusing# more on foreign policy than he is on domestic policy, according to# Steve Bannon, right?

All of those things, and that is why one thing# that's so interesting about Trump 2.0 is that Donald Trump is really# usually pretty good about understanding how people are feeling, right?

The# the emotions of people.

Yes, and he's always been really good at# that and focusing on that.

That is not how he's operating anymore.# And, you know, when I talk to folks um around him and in the White# House, what they say is he's focused on his own legacy.

That does not# include Congress winning back the, you know, winning in November# really.

It is ours, right?

It's big things that that he can, that he,# when he leaves this earth, he can look, people will look back and# say Donald Trump did that.

That is not those issues, the bread and# butter issues of the American people.

Well, and Lisa, Republicans are# nervous.

I mean, a number, uh, we have a record number of seats this# year up for grabs in Congress, redistricting fights are raging# around the country, and there really isn't room for error and so how are# they approaching President Trump's not only President Trump's speech,# but basically the agenda moving forward until midterms.

Well, the# redistricting fight does not seem like it's going the way that they# wanted it to.

We don't know if that's going to save it.

You know,# it's funny, they are being semantic about it.

When I talk to some top# Republican advisers at the Capitol about a month ago they were trying# out these kinds of lines on me.

Well, it's not about prices.

It's# about lowering costs.

It's like, wait, isn't that how, but how are# you doing what?

you know, and we think our polic lower costs.

We're# lowering healthcare costs.

We're doing all those sort of things,# but are you, how are you exactly doing it?

So I think they're still# trying to feel out their message.

I think on immigration they really# a year ago you would have heard from Republicans that they thought# that's what they were going to be running on, you know, closing# the border, as they say it, making the country more safe, but now# they have to run away from it.

So I wouldn't be surprised if the# president does talk about this idea that oh we've taken all these terrible criminals# out of the country, and he'll say a lot of what we've heard# before, which really does not give us a sense of what's actually# happening here because that's a smaller percentage of who's being rounded# up, but I think he's going to run on that because that is something# you're going to hear Republicans try to get back to.

And at the end# of the day it doesn't matter how much they want to get back to it.# If Donald Trump doesn't want to get back to it, that is what the# message of the party is, both in the way that we cover him, but# also in the way that the American people think about it.

Well, and also# speaking of um the MAGA coalition a notably absent person from this# year's address is going to be Marjorie Taylor Greene, and a former MAGA# stalwart turned Trump nemesis.

Just the fact that she is no longer in# Congress, that they had this spectacular break in their relationship.

I# mean, what does it say to you, Lisa, about um where the MAGA coalition# stands today.

Well, and you know, and that Donald Trump still feels# that Rome, Georgia, where he was, that's, that's her turf.

So he's# really taking it to her.

She is tweeting out every day very specific# problems with exclamation points that she's having with Donald Trump.# So that's problem one.

But talking to members in Congress, I talked# to one who is, you know, on in the MAGA coalition who's leaving and# who said, I really don't know what the state of the Union's going to# be like without her because she is, if anyone's going to yell, it's# going to be Marjorie Taylor Greene.

She broke house rules to wear her# MAGA hat, she kind of was trying to get led Biden heckled Biden,# exactly.

So there's a real question, and I think I can confidently say# there's a hope by most members of Congress, Republican and# Democratic leaders that there won't be the kind of yelling that you see.# They both sides have something to lose by that.

However, there's a# question about democratic progressives.

They're having an alternate event.# Some of them are skipping the State of the Union altogether, but# some will attend.

Leader Jeffrey, I've been told by many Democrats,# is asking Democrats to just be respectful, but he has many# progressives who are seeing and who it's going to be hard for them to not# yell when he says something they see as a lie.

And Peter, also the Eugene alluded to this about# his foreign policy track record and how he's going to take this to# the State of the Union.

You know, a number of his closest supporters# and allies believe that he has focused too much on foreign policy# at the expense potentially of domestic affairs.

And so do you# expect that he leans in heavily on that?

I mean, he's been very proud# to talk about peace deals that he may or may not have actually# made over the course of his second term so far.

Uh, how much does he# lean into that versus, say, the economy and his efforts to kind# of lift people's spirits.

There's a good question, and I think that# it would be surprising if it were very heavy on foreign policy.

Most# state of the unions are not.

They don't really speak to most# Americans, but he'll obviously, he'll run through the record as he sees# it, as he portrays it.

I've solved all these wars.

I've got this,# that and the other thing going on.

I'm getting the oil from Venezuela.# I would expect you know a quick, you know, greatest hits, but that's# not the task in front of him.

He doesn't need to convince the# country that he's doing well on foreign policy.

I don't care unless he gets# into war, which case that could change things around.

In fact, the# war with Iran is one more possible fissure point with that.

Maga coal# which isn't really happy about that.

He got to office promising# to end these kind of wars in the Middle East, and the idea we're# going to get into yet another one seems certainly politically problematic,# if not geopolitically problematic, but I think that he will stick# mostly to domestic issues, and the one place he ever demonstrates# some discipline on speeches is the state of the union.

He does tend to# follow the set piece on the State of the Union.

It doesn't mean to# have some moments, right, where he will interact with the crowd# or have some, uh, you know, ad hoc thing but he's pretty good about# sticking to the speech.

So we're talking of a policy speech, not# a rally speech, a policy speech.

It'll be more a rally speech, but# it'll be more domestic than foreign policy.

Susan, with regard to foreign# policy, obviously Iran is still a major issue.

President Trump just# today saying that he was weighing limited strikes on Iran.

He's had# his envoys Steve Witkoffin, also his son-in-law Jared Kushner,# trying to negotiate a deal.

Can you bring us up to speed on where that# stands.

Yeah, I mean, first of all, he sent an enormous, essentially# an armada you know, into the Middle East.

Many of them were# pulled away from here in the Western Hemisphere as part of the previous# buildup around Venezuela.

None of this, I should say, has been# done with consultation with Congress or with any public effort to# explain to us what he's doing, which is why it makes so notable Peter's# point that he's very unlikely even in this State of the Union# address to sort of spell out what's the theory of the case.

Remember,# this goes back Donald Trump seems to want to have a new Iran deal on# nuclear issues that he could put his name on.

Remember, in his first# term, he blew up the actual Iran deal that Barack Obama had negotiated# with the Iranians, and that even key members of Trump's first# government said, you know, Iran was more or less sticking to the# terms of that.

Why is this happening now?

Trump seems to want a new# Iran deal, but he also put out on social media the idea when this# horrific and it really is a horrific and in many ways undercovered# thing that's happened inside Iran, the horrible massacre of, you know,# thousands, even tens of thousands of protesters in cities across the# country, an enormous use of force on their own people.

Trump at one# point suggested that he was going to, you know, sort of wade into# that and to do something on behalf of the protesters.

He didn't# follow through on that, so we don't really know.

And again, the president# of the United States is taking the most powerful military in the# history of the world.

He's using it, but to what end we're not clear# and and that's what I think is very hard to understand in a# democratic small d society is what's the case for why the American# military should potentially be used to topple this government in Iran.# Obviously we've been adversaries with this Iranian government for# decades going back to the hostage crisis, but you know people are very worried that we# are on the brink of another war in the Middle East without even# understanding why or on what terms.

It's very important story that# we'll definitely be following in the weeks to come.

Unfortunately we# have to leave it there, but thank you to our guests for joining me# and thank you at home for watching us.

I'm Vivian Salama.

Good night# from Washington.